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- Okay.

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Good morning everyone.

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My name is Chris Freeland
and I would like to welcome

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you to the second session

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of today's Library Leaders Forum.

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So normally the Library Leaders
Forum is an in person event

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at our headquarters in San Francisco,

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but of course we couldn't
do that this year

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instead we're having this conversation

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in three sessions over three weeks.

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Last week we had our policy session,

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this week is our community
session and next Tuesday will

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be our impact session where
we'll bring it all together.

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So I mentioned that
today's topic is community

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and today we're gonna focus
on the community of practice

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that has developed around
controlled digital lending

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and you're gonna hear from
librarians who are bringing

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CDL into their operations and from experts

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that are building the next
generation of library tools

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that incorporate
controlled digital lending.

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So here's the game plan
for today, we're gonna

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set the stage for today's
panel conversation

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with some background and
some context setting.

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Then two of our engineers
are gonna join us,

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in just a minute and walk
us through some exciting

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new changes to our lending
system and to give you

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a sneak peek into a new interface

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that we're testing to
explore digital libraries.

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Then we're gonna move
into our panel discussion

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and I'll be facilitating that conversation

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with librarians, educators,
and technologists

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about new developments in
the broader CDL community.

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And as a final note, as
I hope many of you know,

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the Internet Archive is
being sued by four large

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commercial publishers over
controlled digital lending.

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Now we won't be able to talk

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or comment on that active
litigation but instead,

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what we're gonna do is talk
about how libraries including

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our own library are using
controlled digital lending to meet

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their patrons where
they're working right now,

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which like almost all of us is online.

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And because we're online all the time,

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we've all become Zoom pros,
but here are a couple of best

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practices maybe to get the
most out of today's session.

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Use the speaker view to view
the session that way you can

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see who's talking and the
slides that we're sharing.

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When we go into the panel,
you might wanna move

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into gallery view so that you can see all

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of the panelists and catch
our reactions and expressions.

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And you can also, submit questions

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to us using the Q and A
feature of the webinar

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and you can also submit
questions on Twitter

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using the hashtag and
empowering libraries.

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Now you've heard me say the phrase

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controlled digital lending
a couple of times already

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and I'd like to sort of
explain what that means

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for those of you who might not be familiar

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with the library practice of
controlled digital lending.

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So controlled digital
lending was developed

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by the copyright community.

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It came from scholars like
Michelle Wu and others,

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who were looking at how can libraries use

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the physical materials,

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the books that are in our collections

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in our new online environments

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and the way the control
digital lending works

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is that there's a one to one
or an owned to loan ratio

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between the number of physical books

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and the number of digital copies lent,

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so for a book that's in
a library's collection,

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the library can choose to
either lend the physical copy

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or a scanned version of that book,

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but not both at the same time.

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The library has to maintain
that owned to loaned ratio

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between the number of
physical copies in hand

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and the number of digital copies lent.

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And so for the Internet Archive,

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we've acquired and digitized
1.8 million modern books,

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and that we've acquired
those for digitization

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and for preservation and
those books are stored

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in our physical archive and digitized

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in our scanning centers
and our physical copies

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don't circulate that 1.8 million number,

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those books aren't circulating,

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instead we circulate the digital copy.

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And so,

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that's a very quick high level overview

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of controlled digital
lending and we'll talk more

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as we get into the session,

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but I'd like to take a moment
and do just a quick recap

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of the conversation that we had last week.

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So at last week's forum, Lila Bailey led

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a really impassioned
panel on policy issues

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related to control digital lending.

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We heard from authors and librarians,

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and also some copyright
specialists and from policymakers

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who shared their views on how
controlled digital lending

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works and its limitations in
an open information ecosystem.

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And we heard from,

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a number of people but
including Cory Doctorow

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author Cory Doctorow
who you're seeing here,

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in the screen grab and he listed
recommendations for keeping

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that open information
ecosystem strong and fair,

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including things like
reform the copyright law,

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change labor laws for
writers to form strong unions

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and a really surprisingly long list

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of other recommendations.

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I highly recommend taking a
look not only at Cory's remarks,

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but of the entire panel it's fantastic,

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that video is now online.

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And it's linked through a
bunch of different places,

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including on our blog, on Twitter,

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and through the Library
Leaders Forum website

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at libraryleadersforum.org.

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We also made an announcement at last week,

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that we want to promote and celebrate.

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So Michelle Wu will receive

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the Internet Archive Hero Award for 2020

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for her visionary leadership in describing

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controlled digital lending.

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Michelle will receive the
award at next week's forum

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and she'll also give a
talk about her scholarship,

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sort of if you will the origin story

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of controlled digital lending
and really what it means,

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for libraries

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and for the people and
for libraries and patrons

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in this moment in time.

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Registration is still
open for that session

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and you can register online
at libraryleadersforum.org.

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So we had a lively Twitter
conversation that kicked off

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last week and has continued through today

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using the empowering libraries hashtag

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sometimes it can be scary
when you have a lively

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Twitter conversation but this one was all

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really positive it was good.

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And so throughout our session today,

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please live tweet to your followers,

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you know and share across social media,

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if you're an Instagram fan
you know snap some instas,

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if you like TikTok, maybe
do a CDL dance or something

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and share that to TikTok
but tag all of your posts

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with the empowering libraries hashtag.

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And the reason we're using
this hashtag is that,

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last week we kicked off the
empowering libraries campaign

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alongside the forum.

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And what we're doing with
that campaign is drawing

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on the themes that we discuss
here in our conversations,

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in the forum and turning
those into action.

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So the publishers lawsuit
that I mentioned threatens

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controlled digital lending
which is the library practice

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that's now in use by hundreds of libraries

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to help connect their
patrons with digital versions

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of the books that are on their shelves,

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in a controlled and protected way.

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Our empowering libraries
campaign aims to rally support

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for controlled digital
lending and to help libraries

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understand where CDL fits
in that robust information

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ecosystem that we've talked about.

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You can learn more about
the empowering libraries

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campaign on our blog or by following

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the empowering libraries
hashtag across social media

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and here to tell us more about the day

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and to help give us background
for the conversation ahead

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is the founder and digital librarian

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of the Internet Archive, Brewster Kahle.

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- Thank you Chris and welcome.

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Libraries and librarians it's actually

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a really good day for us.

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It's good to know that people
really, really need us,

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but they need us digital,

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they need all of our services digital,

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they need all of our collections digital

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so it's not just the little
digital corner off to the side,

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we need to basically go and do all of it

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and that's where controlled
digital lending comes in.

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Libraries have been doing
controlled analog lending

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for thousands of years.

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But that's now just called
lending, I would say,

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when we're successful at
controlled digital lending,

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it will just be called lending

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for me and the Internet
Archive how we got involved

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in all of this was after the
last recession in 2008, 2009,

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we started digitizing using
Obama's stimulus funds

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books for the print disabled,

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and we digitized 150,000 of them.

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And then with making those available

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to the blind and dyslexic.

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And then we went on to do
controlled digital lending,

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working with Boston Public Library,

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which digitized books
from their collection

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in copyright non rights cleared.

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And COSLA the State Librarians,

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also came in and we got
from over 20 libraries

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they actually sent in books

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in copyright non rights
cleared to digitize

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and lend under their
own name to show support

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for controlled digital
lending this was back in 2011.

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So this has been going
on now for nine years

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and it's going actually very well

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more and more libraries are joining in,

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the lawsuit is a really sad testament

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maybe to people during the pandemic,

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what they do when they
are in the pandemic.

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But the key thing is that we libraries

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move this forward.

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We've always had a role,

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and controlled digital lending
gives us a continued role

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of building our collections,
buying publishers products,

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preserving those books and other materials

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and lending those out.

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Otherwise, if it's all a licensed world,

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then I think we've become
more of a customer service

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department for other
people's database products.

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And that's not what a library system is,

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it's not what we do.

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So let's go and make our
pieces whole and work

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and I'm so glad that we've come together

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for this meeting about,

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what's the current practices
now and where are we all going?

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Back to you, Chris.

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- Great, thanks Brewster.

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So I asked at the start,

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you filled out a little
poll if you chose to,

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asking the question have
you checked out a book

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from Internet Archive's lending library?

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And I wanna share those results with you.

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Now so I'm gonna end the poll

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and I'm gonna click share results

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and I understand that this
is gonna show on screen

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there are people who are
calling in and it doesn't show

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on the video so I wanna walk
and talk through these results.

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So I was really surprised
I sort of didn't know

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what the numbers would be,

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but I'm really pleased to see this

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so we have in answering the question,

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have you checked out a book

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from Internet Archive's lending library?

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We had 50% of the room said yes,

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47% said no and 3% said, not sure.

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So this is really great.

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Again, I was surprised I
honestly I thought that the no,

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and the not sure were gonna
be a little bit longer.

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So I'm happy to see that,

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that half of you in the
room or that answered

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have used our lending library.

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And so thanks again,

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for participating in that conversation,

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or participating in the poll.

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What I wanna do now,

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is bring two of our engineers to the stage

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so we have two of our
expert engineers with us,

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we have Isa Hericho
Velasco and Drini Cami,

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and Isa and Drini are
gonna give us a quick tour

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through our digital library.

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So for the 47 and maybe
3% of you who haven't used

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a book in our lending
library, you're in luck

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00:12:21,330 --> 00:12:23,950
we're gonna walk you
through how you can do that.

258
00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:25,940
So Isa if you wanna go
ahead and share your screen,

259
00:12:25,940 --> 00:12:27,430
you can go ahead and get started.

260
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:31,730
And Isa's gonna walk us
through how our lending system

261
00:12:31,730 --> 00:12:34,510
works including how to check
out a book and how to follow

262
00:12:34,510 --> 00:12:36,920
citations to our books through Wikipedia.

263
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,420
And then Drini,

264
00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:40,790
is gonna show us a
glimpse into the future.

265
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:43,640
He's been working on a beta
test of a new interface

266
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,280
for exploring digital
libraries and you're gonna get

267
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,263
a demo of that today so over to you Isa.

268
00:12:51,870 --> 00:12:53,770
- Good morning and
thank you so much Chris,

269
00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:55,320
can everybody see my slides?

270
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,170
Thumbs up awesome.

271
00:12:57,170 --> 00:12:58,870
It's a pleasure to be here with you.

272
00:12:58,870 --> 00:13:01,550
You know, my name's Isa and
today I'll walk you through

273
00:13:01,550 --> 00:13:03,783
the book reading
experience on archive.org.

274
00:13:05,630 --> 00:13:08,550
So but before I start, I'd
like to just, you know,

275
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:10,360
name the stops on our book tour.

276
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,140
We'll find a book, we'll
navigate it, we'll borrow

277
00:13:13,140 --> 00:13:16,720
and we'll also share something
cool that we find inside.

278
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:17,553
Okay?

279
00:13:17,553 --> 00:13:19,670
Oh, and one more thing, my goal actually

280
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:20,840
for these next few minutes

281
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,930
is to show you the resources
that we have for you to use,

282
00:13:24,930 --> 00:13:28,680
to gain more access to more knowledge,

283
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,210
right at your fingertips.

284
00:13:30,210 --> 00:13:31,763
All right, let's start.

285
00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:39,080
Somewhere inside of
quarantine in a certain place

286
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,500
but when everybody started making bread,

287
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:44,560
we actually started to
become birdwatchers.

288
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:45,983
And you know,

289
00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:48,810
when COVID hit,

290
00:13:48,810 --> 00:13:51,280
you know, we lost a lot
of our educational anchors

291
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,910
when the library's closed
my son is you know three

292
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:57,140
and we really relied on
these in person events

293
00:13:57,140 --> 00:13:59,280
to socialize and educate him.

294
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,470
So now me as a parent, I'm
just trying to stay abreast

295
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:08,120
you know, a breath and kind of float,

296
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,980
and also ahead on staying
ahead of his interests.

297
00:14:10,980 --> 00:14:14,350
And I said all that to say
that we're really interested

298
00:14:14,350 --> 00:14:15,930
in hummingbirds right now.

299
00:14:15,930 --> 00:14:19,400
First it was finches, now spin
starlings, now hummingbirds.

300
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,840
So for me to gain more
knowledge, you know,

301
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,580
I like to come into Wikipedia
to get a gist of a topic.

302
00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:29,700
And the last question he
asked me was you know,

303
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:31,900
what do hummingbirds eat?

304
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:35,420
I wanted to give him the facts, you know,

305
00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:38,750
not just nectar, water, you
know, this or that, you know,

306
00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:41,320
how we do these things I really
wanna give him the facts.

307
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,460
So I see here on Wikipedia
that there's a section

308
00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:46,800
on metabolism, that's close to food,

309
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,100
it's close enough to food.

310
00:14:49,190 --> 00:14:50,583
And I see here, you know,

311
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:53,340
there's a really good summary

312
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:56,640
of how hummingbirds metabolize.

313
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,750
And I also see that a bit
that there are a bunch

314
00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:04,260
of citations as well here so
I'm really excited about that.

315
00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:08,940
What I do find is that
there is a book cited here

316
00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:11,170
and it's called "The
Life of The Hummingbird"

317
00:15:11,170 --> 00:15:12,563
so I'll click on that.

318
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:15,850
And the great thing is
that it takes me right

319
00:15:15,850 --> 00:15:18,220
into the book on archive.org.

320
00:15:18,220 --> 00:15:21,050
I see here that it's
a limited book preview

321
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:24,830
so, you know, we can only
see some of the book,

322
00:15:24,830 --> 00:15:27,010
not all of it, the first
you know few pages,

323
00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:28,293
the front and back cover.

324
00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:33,340
Which is great and you know,

325
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:35,662
that citation didn't directly link me

326
00:15:35,662 --> 00:15:38,740
into what I wanted to
know about the hummingbird

327
00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:41,850
is, you know, what they
consume so I'll just actually

328
00:15:41,850 --> 00:15:44,090
search inside the book and more

329
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:46,860
of a sneak peek inside
of this restricted book.

330
00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:47,693
Wonderful.

331
00:15:47,693 --> 00:15:50,710
Now we have a bunch of results
here and I will use this new,

332
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:53,540
search results navigation bar that we have

333
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:56,710
to get to the first result, oh great.

334
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:58,470
So there is actually a chapter

335
00:15:58,470 --> 00:16:02,400
on food metabolism and
longevity of a hummingbird.

336
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,570
You know, this is what I wanna know

337
00:16:04,570 --> 00:16:06,930
more of and dig deeper into so you know,

338
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:08,133
I'll actually borrow it.

339
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:12,303
I'll go up to the lending bar
here I see that this book,

340
00:16:13,294 --> 00:16:15,293
you know, can be borrowed for an hour.

341
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:19,100
And, you know before I go into that,

342
00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,500
I just also wanna note that
you don't actually need

343
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:23,700
to be in Wikipedia to get into a book,

344
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:26,360
you can actually just
jump into archive.org

345
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,120
and with two clicks book,
click up here on the nav bar,

346
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,740
and any of these links will get

347
00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:35,020
you to the books that we have.

348
00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:37,300
Okay so let's get back to borrowing.

349
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:40,630
We have a book here that
can be borrowed for an hour.

350
00:16:40,630 --> 00:16:42,148
I see that, you know,

351
00:16:42,148 --> 00:16:45,350
there's the main borrowing
option for an hour here,

352
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:48,510
but this book actually has
a couple of more options

353
00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:52,680
and I'll click down just
to show you what they are.

354
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:53,520
I can borrow this,

355
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,449
this particular book
for one hour or 14 days.

356
00:16:57,449 --> 00:16:59,950
And if you see this button here,

357
00:16:59,950 --> 00:17:02,410
that means that this book is
actually available to purchase

358
00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:03,573
on Better World Books.

359
00:17:04,570 --> 00:17:09,570
And also if you have a
qualifying a print disability,

360
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,540
or would like to know more about
getting access to our books

361
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:17,583
in a print disabled,

362
00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:23,867
in an easy way then you know,
click here or let us know,

363
00:17:23,867 --> 00:17:26,400
and we can get you to the right people.

364
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,487
So for now I'd just like to
take a peek into this book

365
00:17:28,487 --> 00:17:30,463
and I borrow it for an hour.

366
00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:36,403
Wonderful.

367
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,860
Wonderful so okay now I'm
here I'm borrowing the book.

368
00:17:40,860 --> 00:17:45,860
I can see here the borrowing
time ends at 11:18 a.m.

369
00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:47,500
and that means I am now in our

370
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:49,840
controlled digital lending environment

371
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,910
I'm the only reader who has
access to this digital copy

372
00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:55,673
for the next hour so
this is for my eyes only.

373
00:17:57,430 --> 00:18:01,890
And now I can actually flip
through all of the pages

374
00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:06,590
and see the wonderful content
that this book has to offer

375
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:08,950
and amazing pictures you know,

376
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:11,940
actually I kind of wanna
send this one to my son.

377
00:18:11,940 --> 00:18:14,120
And okay, great.

378
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,730
So I'm noting that I can actually send

379
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:21,020
this particular page to
someone and they can see it.

380
00:18:21,020 --> 00:18:24,580
And so take that pin and we'll
circle back on that later.

381
00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:27,960
I see now that this book can be borrowed

382
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,170
until 11:18 a.m. my time.

383
00:18:31,170 --> 00:18:32,003
That means,

384
00:18:35,255 --> 00:18:37,553
it will automatically return.

385
00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:41,590
But for now I would just like to return it

386
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:42,740
and be a good neighbor.

387
00:18:47,050 --> 00:18:48,480
And that's actually,

388
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,540
the gist of you know
the book borrowing flow,

389
00:18:52,540 --> 00:18:54,930
and you can do it to any book

390
00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:57,390
that we have available to borrow.

391
00:18:57,390 --> 00:19:00,720
Going back into the
slides, let's do a recap.

392
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,630
So we did all the things, we
found a book, we navigated,

393
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:07,650
we borrowed and we shared a page,

394
00:19:07,650 --> 00:19:10,030
and we're going to circle
back on that sharing link,

395
00:19:10,030 --> 00:19:11,700
because I think this is quite important,

396
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:14,160
especially for the time
that we have now, you know,

397
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,680
with schools shifting to distance learning

398
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,020
this citation link, the share link

399
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:23,480
can be a powerful tool for
researchers and students alike.

400
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,920
You know, like Wikipedia researchers,

401
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,890
your students and researchers
can quickly reference any page

402
00:19:29,890 --> 00:19:32,723
and or term in a book on archive.org.

403
00:19:33,580 --> 00:19:36,640
So this is the anatomy
of our URL share link.

404
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,730
We have archive.org/details/item
ID that will

405
00:19:40,730 --> 00:19:42,070
take you directly to the book,

406
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:43,860
just like the Wikipedia citation.

407
00:19:43,860 --> 00:19:45,640
But if he wants to dig deeper in,

408
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,640
you can actually add a
page number, slash page,

409
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,800
slash page number and a search term

410
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,480
if you want it all to like
light up when you land,

411
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,400
when you know you want that
person to land on that book,

412
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,220
and you can just do this, you know,

413
00:20:00,220 --> 00:20:05,220
you can create this URL and
we'll get you to the right page

414
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,603
with the right, you know, search
results at any given time.

415
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,660
So now when I went through the book tour,

416
00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:17,650
but I just wanted to also,

417
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:19,100
bubble up some of the features

418
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:21,000
that are coming down the pipeline now,

419
00:20:23,070 --> 00:20:25,690
I showed you that we can search
inside a previewable book,

420
00:20:25,690 --> 00:20:28,690
but now we're going to be
able to soon search across

421
00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:31,000
multiple volumes you know, and journals,

422
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,350
big books with volumes we
can have bookmarks in there

423
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:37,790
and we'll also have like desktop dark mode

424
00:20:37,790 --> 00:20:39,250
and other visual adjustments,

425
00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:41,890
you know Hi-res images support

426
00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:43,640
so much more pinch to Zoom as well.

427
00:20:45,050 --> 00:20:46,630
So I'm really excited as you know,

428
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:50,070
part of the book readers stewards
here at Internet Archive.

429
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:52,870
Now we have so much more to provide,

430
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:57,580
to give you to use and to
provide an enriched experience.

431
00:20:59,260 --> 00:21:01,210
Anytime you read a book on archive.org.

432
00:21:02,290 --> 00:21:05,210
So now I'll actually step over, you know,

433
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:07,700
pull ourselves out of this
book and bring us back

434
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,520
into the library and I'll pass
it over to my colleague Drini

435
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,763
and he'll walk us through
his amazing library explorer.

436
00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:17,780
- Thanks Isa.

437
00:21:17,780 --> 00:21:21,733
All right, let me begin
sharing my window here.

438
00:21:21,733 --> 00:21:22,590
All right.

439
00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:25,322
Hello everyone, my name is Drini,

440
00:21:25,322 --> 00:21:28,380
and I work on Open Library
at the Internet Archive.

441
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:29,870
And like Chris mentioned,

442
00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:32,290
I'd like to share with you
and experimental interface

443
00:21:32,290 --> 00:21:35,410
that's currently in beta
for letting users discover

444
00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:37,903
and explore our digital collection.

445
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:40,280
So it might come as no surprise,

446
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,730
but the people working on
Open Library love libraries.

447
00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:46,090
We love just about everything about them.

448
00:21:46,090 --> 00:21:47,850
When I was a student in university,

449
00:21:47,850 --> 00:21:51,030
I'd often walk through the
shelves of my school's library

450
00:21:51,030 --> 00:21:53,880
when I was feeling stressed or frustrated.

451
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,380
There was something about
seeing 600 page books

452
00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:58,650
on everything from quantum mechanics,

453
00:21:58,650 --> 00:22:00,890
to Napoleon's battle at Waterloo,

454
00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:02,940
to properties of prime numbers,

455
00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:05,200
that always calmed me down somehow.

456
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,440
I mean if somebody can spend 600 pages

457
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,750
talking about cybernetics,
then maybe the things

458
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:13,234
that I was worried about,
weren't quite so worrisome.

459
00:22:13,234 --> 00:22:15,460
And I would always leave the library,

460
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:18,303
having discovered
something new and usually,

461
00:22:19,629 --> 00:22:20,883
a variety of new things.

462
00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:23,720
This is something that I
haven't really been able

463
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,910
to replicate online or
at a digital library,

464
00:22:26,910 --> 00:22:27,973
like Open Library.

465
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,030
The way that you navigate
on most digital books sites

466
00:22:34,030 --> 00:22:36,103
like Open library, excuse me, for a sec.

467
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,940
Like Open Library is by using things

468
00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:42,780
like authors or searching or subjects,

469
00:22:42,780 --> 00:22:46,020
but these ended up operating
more like the front desk

470
00:22:46,020 --> 00:22:47,900
of a physical library.

471
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:51,290
You can ask for a query
and then our search engine

472
00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:53,750
tries to fill the role
of the helpful librarian

473
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:56,300
and provide you with books in return.

474
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:59,830
But you can't go yourself
into the stacks and explore

475
00:22:59,830 --> 00:23:02,056
that forest of humanity's knowledge

476
00:23:02,056 --> 00:23:04,563
like I could at my school's library.

477
00:23:05,895 --> 00:23:08,560
The other way that websites
try to solve this problem

478
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,890
is by using a complicated
recommendation algorithms

479
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:15,299
like YouTube or Netflix, but
these algorithms are based

480
00:23:15,299 --> 00:23:18,980
on having information about
what you've already experienced

481
00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:21,390
and enjoyed to give you recommendations

482
00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:23,280
on new content you might enjoy.

483
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,890
So you still lose a good
chunk of that exploration

484
00:23:26,890 --> 00:23:30,110
you can't explore you're
dependent on the algorithm

485
00:23:30,110 --> 00:23:32,040
and it causes a lot of people to get stuck

486
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,550
in these algorithmic bubbles
where they're not getting

487
00:23:34,550 --> 00:23:36,960
new content they're only
getting content similar

488
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,530
to what they like or what
they are expected to like.

489
00:23:40,530 --> 00:23:42,450
There's no way to really systematically

490
00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:44,093
and feasibly explore,

491
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,453
through a large collection.

492
00:23:48,410 --> 00:23:51,460
With this in mind, this year
we added the ability to search

493
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:54,430
by classifications on Open Library

494
00:23:54,430 --> 00:23:57,780
so Dewey Decimal and Library of Congress.

495
00:23:57,780 --> 00:24:00,820
And we realized that embedded
within these classifications,

496
00:24:00,820 --> 00:24:03,960
are over 100 years worth
of librarian experience

497
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,670
and knowledge, which
is largely inaccessible

498
00:24:06,670 --> 00:24:07,873
to your average reader.

499
00:24:09,270 --> 00:24:12,110
We wanted to use these
classifications to create

500
00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:15,253
an interface that pays
homage to physical libraries,

501
00:24:16,331 --> 00:24:19,060
and more closely mirrors
that discovery experience

502
00:24:19,060 --> 00:24:20,893
you get at a physical library.

503
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,653
So without further ado,

504
00:24:24,788 --> 00:24:27,163
this is what the library
explorer looks like.

505
00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:30,900
So as you can see it
is very much an homage

506
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:34,210
to physical libraries we
have bookcases, bookshelves

507
00:24:34,210 --> 00:24:37,750
and the books and the signage around them.

508
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:40,680
And the main way you navigate
through the library explorer

509
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,570
is in two dimensions, left,
right and up and down.

510
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:46,470
Moving left and right takes you through

511
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:48,800
the top level classes of your hierarchies,

512
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,373
languages, science, technology, and so on.

513
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,290
Moving down, it takes you
through the subclasses,

514
00:24:56,290 --> 00:24:59,340
so if we're currently
on the science bookcase,

515
00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:01,520
moving down takes us to general science,

516
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,823
mathematics, astronomy,
physics, and so on.

517
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,600
To navigate deeper still,
you can use the arrows here,

518
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,310
so for example, if we're in chemistry

519
00:25:11,310 --> 00:25:14,610
and we wanna go deeper, we
can navigate using the arrows,

520
00:25:14,610 --> 00:25:17,010
so we go from chemistry
to specifically chemistry

521
00:25:17,010 --> 00:25:19,720
and allied sciences, physical chemistry,

522
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,883
techniques and procedures and so on.

523
00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:26,870
We can use the index icon
here to view an index

524
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:30,320
of all the subclasses of this shelf

525
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,883
so we can jump to a specific
section straightaway.

526
00:25:37,385 --> 00:25:38,970
And let's jump back there.

527
00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:40,780
Another important way of going deeper

528
00:25:40,780 --> 00:25:41,930
into the classification

529
00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:44,810
are these little expansion
icons right here.

530
00:25:44,810 --> 00:25:48,520
So if we wanted to get a lot
of books about earth science

531
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,710
and geology, we can click the expand icon

532
00:25:51,710 --> 00:25:56,710
and then this row becomes
an entire bookcase.

533
00:25:56,970 --> 00:25:59,660
So what was previously just
a row becomes this bookcase

534
00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:02,380
and now we can navigate
through all the subclasses

535
00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:05,750
of earth science and
geology just by going down.

536
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:08,580
And as we noticed earlier,
chemistry was a sibling

537
00:26:08,580 --> 00:26:12,700
to earth science and geology
so if we move left and right

538
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:16,550
now all the bookcases have
changed to match our new level

539
00:26:16,550 --> 00:26:19,760
so chemistry is now its
own bookcase, fossils,

540
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,080
and prehistoric life and so on.

541
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,793
And we can jump back to,

542
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:26,680
where we were by pressing the go up button

543
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,980
and now we're in the
sciences book case again.

544
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,010
One important interaction that
comes out of a user interface

545
00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:36,910
like this is the ability to filter.

546
00:26:36,910 --> 00:26:39,180
So for example if we go down here

547
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:41,760
and select a juvenile filter,

548
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,086
then we get our whole library
transformed for children.

549
00:26:46,086 --> 00:26:48,520
So this basically is querying for things

550
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,860
that have subject juvenile but
now we still have the exact

551
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:55,010
same structure and the exact same

552
00:26:55,010 --> 00:26:57,033
interaction models to navigate,

553
00:26:58,733 --> 00:27:00,083
through our entire library.

554
00:27:01,930 --> 00:27:04,410
In a similar vein if I reset that filter,

555
00:27:04,410 --> 00:27:06,240
we can apply any custom filter here

556
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,200
so if I do subject biography,

557
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,200
which is kind of a classic edge case

558
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,750
for classification systems,

559
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:16,500
'cause biographies span a
bunch of different subjects

560
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:18,350
so you can't group them all together.

561
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:22,730
Now we have an entire
library of biographies.

562
00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:24,820
We basically constructed a new library,

563
00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:27,653
curated to our specific interests.

564
00:27:29,550 --> 00:27:33,000
The last thing I wanted to
share is a small aesthetic

565
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,670
feature of the library explorer.

566
00:27:34,670 --> 00:27:37,177
So because this is an
homage to physical libraries

567
00:27:37,177 --> 00:27:39,210
and the interactions you can do there,

568
00:27:39,210 --> 00:27:41,130
we have the option to view the books

569
00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:44,970
as these little 3D cuboid figures.

570
00:27:44,970 --> 00:27:46,690
And because we have the number of pages

571
00:27:46,690 --> 00:27:48,720
in our Open Library metadata,

572
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,720
the thickness of the books is proportional

573
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,360
to the actual length and the
number of pages of the books.

574
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,960
And if you're feeling
still more nostalgic,

575
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,763
if you zoom out your browser window,

576
00:28:00,310 --> 00:28:02,529
you'll see that slowly but surely

577
00:28:02,529 --> 00:28:06,400
an entire library of
books slowly comes to life

578
00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:09,473
and the books populate the shelves.

579
00:28:11,950 --> 00:28:15,320
That's everything I wanted to
share about library explorer.

580
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,320
It's currently available at
dev.openlibrary.org/explore.

581
00:28:20,330 --> 00:28:22,440
It is in beta so there
will probably be some bugs,

582
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,194
but everything I've shown
you should be working

583
00:28:25,194 --> 00:28:28,040
there will probably be
some performance issues

584
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,193
or some issues across different browsers,

585
00:28:32,678 --> 00:28:35,300
and you can provide feedback at that link,

586
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:38,250
but we really hope this will
help people discover new books

587
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,724
have that sense of discovery
I had at my school's library

588
00:28:42,724 --> 00:28:46,150
and also avoid getting stuck
in those algorithmic bubbles,

589
00:28:46,150 --> 00:28:48,343
which we have been
getting stuck in lately.

590
00:28:49,210 --> 00:28:51,670
That's everything I had to
say, thank you for your time

591
00:28:51,670 --> 00:28:53,913
and with that, I'll hand
it back to you Chris.

592
00:28:55,950 --> 00:28:58,533
- Thanks Drini and Isa both thanks,

593
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:01,987
for that ex excellent demo and for walking

594
00:29:01,987 --> 00:29:04,640
us through this really exciting

595
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,640
developments that you've been
working on for for a while

596
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:11,593
so thanks again for your time today.

597
00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:17,360
So maybe a call to action
here in our first half hour

598
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,882
for the 47% of you that
hadn't checked out a book

599
00:29:21,882 --> 00:29:24,140
and the 3% of you that weren't sure

600
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:27,190
you're now armed with how
you can check out a book,

601
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:28,860
what that experience is like so please,

602
00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:31,943
I'd encourage everyone
read a book at archive.org,

603
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,653
and go check out what our
lending library is all about.

604
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:39,670
So now we're gonna move
into our panel discussion

605
00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:42,160
and I'd like to invite our
panelist for this segment

606
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,893
to turn on your cameras and
I'm gonna stop my share here.

607
00:29:49,410 --> 00:29:51,012
Great, thanks everyone.

608
00:29:51,012 --> 00:29:53,210
So synchronous viewers
you might wanna change

609
00:29:53,210 --> 00:29:55,810
into gallery view so that you can see

610
00:29:55,810 --> 00:29:58,110
everyone's expressions here.

611
00:29:58,110 --> 00:30:00,180
So the Internet Archive has been operating

612
00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:02,040
a controlled digital lending environment

613
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,310
for more than nine years and
we started with libraries

614
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:07,756
in the Boston area and we now
have more than 80 libraries

615
00:30:07,756 --> 00:30:09,710
that are participating along with us

616
00:30:09,710 --> 00:30:11,463
in our open libraries program.

617
00:30:12,430 --> 00:30:15,420
And we're really thrilled to
see that there are a number

618
00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:17,700
of other libraries and library systems

619
00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:21,250
and library technology partners
that are now incorporating

620
00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:24,260
controlled digital lending
into their operations.

621
00:30:24,260 --> 00:30:28,200
So there is strength in
community and it's that community

622
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,140
of practice that I wanna explore

623
00:30:30,140 --> 00:30:32,200
through our discussion today.

624
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,690
And so for this session we're
gonna have introductions,

625
00:30:35,690 --> 00:30:37,640
then we'll move into
a conversation related

626
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,050
to various aspects of
controlled digital lending

627
00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:41,810
and then we'll wrap with questions.

628
00:30:41,810 --> 00:30:43,370
So please do ask your questions

629
00:30:43,370 --> 00:30:45,311
here using the Q and A feature

630
00:30:45,311 --> 00:30:48,953
or on Twitter using empowering libraries.

631
00:30:49,810 --> 00:30:51,380
So what I'd like to do
is I'd like to have each

632
00:30:51,380 --> 00:30:54,900
of today's panelists give us
an introduction and tell us

633
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,770
how you're working with
controlled digital lending

634
00:30:57,770 --> 00:31:00,160
and I'd like to start with Tucker Taylor

635
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,070
from the University of South Carolina.

636
00:31:02,070 --> 00:31:03,373
So over to you, Tucker.

637
00:31:04,370 --> 00:31:05,630
- Thanks Chris.

638
00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:06,920
Hi, I'm Tucker Taylor

639
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,950
from the University of
South Carolina library,

640
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:11,210
I'm a circulation librarian
which for those of y'all

641
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:12,400
who don't live in library land

642
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,940
that means I check books in and out.

643
00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:17,540
One of the other things that
I get to do is provide support

644
00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:19,803
for our people who are teaching at USC.

645
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:24,430
So spring was interesting for us,

646
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:27,050
as you can imagine all of our students

647
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:30,220
were sent home during spring break

648
00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:32,920
they weren't able to come back to their,

649
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,310
dorm rooms and get their textbooks

650
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:37,490
or anything that they owned
and they had to go home,

651
00:31:37,490 --> 00:31:40,470
so one of the things that I
have the privilege of providing

652
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:43,300
for our students is a
large textbook collection

653
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:45,780
that we've spent a lot of student tuition

654
00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:49,300
and our tax dollars on
and we wanted to continue

655
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:50,900
to broad access to that.

656
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:53,320
So during the spring it was pretty easy,

657
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,720
there were a lot of publishers
that were very willing

658
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,330
to help us get access to
their content for free

659
00:31:58,330 --> 00:32:00,200
because of the pandemic.

660
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,640
The Internet Archive certainly
stepped up and helped us out

661
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,200
so thank you so much you
helped so many of our students

662
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,510
when they were in pretty desperate need

663
00:32:07,510 --> 00:32:10,130
so thank you Internet
Archive for stepping up

664
00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:11,863
and helping us this spring.

665
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,790
Of course, publishers
are here to make money,

666
00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:19,180
so, you know, free access
doesn't last forever

667
00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:22,010
and over the summer, it
became very apparent to us

668
00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:24,870
that we were still going to
be in the same pickle for fall

669
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:28,200
many of our students who
had health conditions

670
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,750
that would preclude them from being able

671
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:32,410
to attend in person would
not be able to come.

672
00:32:32,410 --> 00:32:35,410
There were many questions
and still many questions

673
00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:37,430
about the safety of short term lending

674
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:38,780
when you're handing people books

675
00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:40,910
that somebody breathes on and licks pages

676
00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:43,490
and you know, just pandemic no

677
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:45,500
so we decided that we were not able

678
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:47,520
to lend our print collection,

679
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,530
for textbooks for the short term lend.

680
00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:51,590
So, you know, I'm a librarian.

681
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:53,610
I wanna check things in and
out it's what I've spent

682
00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:56,780
30 years doing I just wanna
check things in and out.

683
00:32:56,780 --> 00:32:59,370
So it feels reasonable to
me that I should be able

684
00:32:59,370 --> 00:33:02,230
to do online library checkout
we've spent a lot of money

685
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:04,760
we own these books we
should be able to do this.

686
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,170
So.

687
00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:09,410
Me and this group of
really helpful colleagues

688
00:33:09,410 --> 00:33:11,390
at the University of
South Carolina embarked

689
00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:13,550
on a mission to try to find
a way to help our students

690
00:33:13,550 --> 00:33:16,920
and to use the resources we paid for.

691
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,120
We started with ebook vendors

692
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,230
and they didn't wanna take our money.

693
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:24,910
And it was because of their relationships

694
00:33:24,910 --> 00:33:26,830
with the publishers,
which I think should serve

695
00:33:26,830 --> 00:33:29,970
to all libraries, a sober
reminder that we pay people

696
00:33:29,970 --> 00:33:34,820
who don't work for us,
but that is what it is.

697
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:37,020
So we tried to build our own solution,

698
00:33:37,020 --> 00:33:40,110
which turned out to be hard, surprisingly,

699
00:33:40,110 --> 00:33:42,840
to build your own ebook platform,
but you know, good hustle.

700
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,980
We had a lot of people work
really hard and there's still

701
00:33:44,980 --> 00:33:47,000
people working hard on this.

702
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,550
But what did work out
for us was partnering

703
00:33:49,550 --> 00:33:53,080
with a digital initiatives
project called HathiTrust.

704
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,808
Now we were already members of HathiTrust

705
00:33:54,808 --> 00:33:57,320
and as a circulation librarian

706
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,160
and not a digital initiatives librarian,

707
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,030
I'm not here to tell you
everything that HathiTrust does,

708
00:34:02,030 --> 00:34:04,540
but one of the things I'm very
grateful that HathiTrust does

709
00:34:04,540 --> 00:34:08,010
is during the pandemic is
providing emergency access

710
00:34:08,010 --> 00:34:11,060
to books that we've
scanned and own in print

711
00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:12,670
if you're not checking out the print book

712
00:34:12,670 --> 00:34:14,770
so you know, I didn't
wanna just scan a book

713
00:34:14,770 --> 00:34:17,210
and put it up online as a
PDF for all the students

714
00:34:17,210 --> 00:34:20,520
to be able to download or
share or post somewhere else,

715
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,170
you know, that's not
what libraries are about,

716
00:34:22,170 --> 00:34:24,840
we're team players we
want to do the right thing

717
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,068
and I've spent money on these books.

718
00:34:27,068 --> 00:34:29,320
So we want to be able to control the law,

719
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,580
just do online library checkout
one book in, one book out.

720
00:34:32,580 --> 00:34:36,070
So we scanned a number of books
and put them in HathiTrust,

721
00:34:36,070 --> 00:34:37,790
it's a little bit less
than perfect solution

722
00:34:37,790 --> 00:34:40,140
for us to be honest because
it is a Herculean effort

723
00:34:40,140 --> 00:34:42,080
to get something into HathiTrust

724
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,040
and understandably so because
this is not what the project

725
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,560
was designed for and I'm so grateful

726
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,670
that they're allowing us
to use it in this way.

727
00:34:49,670 --> 00:34:52,010
But we're still hopeful
that we're gonna find a way

728
00:34:52,010 --> 00:34:55,240
that we can do scanning
to different standard

729
00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:57,290
and be able to provide
access to the content

730
00:34:57,290 --> 00:34:59,148
that we purchased and owned.

731
00:34:59,148 --> 00:35:03,903
But that's so far our digital
online checkout experience.

732
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,153
- Thanks, Tucker,

733
00:35:07,153 --> 00:35:09,400
and a point on HathiTrust

734
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,700
and their emergency
temporary access service.

735
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:14,930
We have invited HathiTrust to participate

736
00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:16,460
in this conversation and in others.

737
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:18,620
And I think that Hathi they don't consider

738
00:35:18,620 --> 00:35:20,460
their emergency temporary access service

739
00:35:20,460 --> 00:35:22,240
to be part of controlled digital lending

740
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,500
it's sort of a different model

741
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:26,090
so I think we'll probably try

742
00:35:26,090 --> 00:35:28,782
to have future conversations around that.

743
00:35:28,782 --> 00:35:30,540
Let's stay in libraries and let's go

744
00:35:30,540 --> 00:35:33,060
to Tom Cramer at Stanford.

745
00:35:33,060 --> 00:35:34,270
- Yeah, thanks Chris.

746
00:35:34,270 --> 00:35:35,310
My name is Tom Cramer,

747
00:35:35,310 --> 00:35:36,143
I'm the Associate University
Librarian and the Director

748
00:35:36,143 --> 00:35:40,683
of Digital Library Systems
and Services at Stanford.

749
00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:46,940
And we became very interested
in controlled digital lending

750
00:35:47,663 --> 00:35:51,170
in the end of March, 2020.

751
00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:55,890
We have tens of thousands
of visitors every month

752
00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:58,370
to our libraries we have

753
00:35:59,750 --> 00:36:02,700
up to 10,000 to 10 to 20,000 circulations

754
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:04,660
of physical materials every month.

755
00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:09,370
And that all came to a
screeching halt around March 16th

756
00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:11,193
or whatever the exact date was,

757
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,070
back then and we were
just about to start up

758
00:36:15,070 --> 00:36:19,420
our spring quarter and
Stanford went all digital

759
00:36:20,490 --> 00:36:22,960
everything was remote for spring quarter

760
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,440
and we had millions of books

761
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,910
and tens of thousands of researchers

762
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:31,980
who could not access the
billions of dollars literally

763
00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:36,830
of content that had been
stored up in our stacks.

764
00:36:36,830 --> 00:36:41,080
So that's why we're in CDL with sort of

765
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,400
we're aware of it
beforehand but this pandemic

766
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,750
has just made us acutely aware of the need

767
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:47,343
and really the opportunity,

768
00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:51,740
we are launching a controlled
digital lending solution

769
00:36:51,740 --> 00:36:53,173
that we did build ourselves.

770
00:36:54,922 --> 00:36:57,500
You know, leveraging components
that we already had in place

771
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,720
and we became very interested

772
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,290
as we were trying to
explore the ramifications

773
00:37:02,290 --> 00:37:04,540
and the needs for
controlled digital lending,

774
00:37:04,540 --> 00:37:06,810
how other people were doing it.

775
00:37:06,810 --> 00:37:08,940
My hat goes off to Brewster and Chris

776
00:37:08,940 --> 00:37:10,610
and their colleagues at
the Internet Archive,

777
00:37:10,610 --> 00:37:12,850
if you do a little bit
of internet searching,

778
00:37:12,850 --> 00:37:15,930
you'll find lots of great
examples and use cases

779
00:37:15,930 --> 00:37:18,070
going back multiple years
as they've been beating

780
00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:21,470
this CDL drum, as we were
looking at it though,

781
00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:25,060
we figured out that the IA model

782
00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:27,437
wasn't exactly right for
us and we said that there

783
00:37:27,437 --> 00:37:28,820
are things we can learn from that,

784
00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:30,710
but where our fellow travelers

785
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:33,063
and that's how we got into this

786
00:37:33,063 --> 00:37:36,810
and also became one of
the founding organizers

787
00:37:36,810 --> 00:37:39,760
of a group called Controlled
Digital Lending Implementers,

788
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,500
which Sebastian and Jill are
also ringleaders of and I think

789
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:45,800
we'll spend a little
time talking about today.

790
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:49,280
- Thanks, Tom.

791
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,450
How about over to Jill Morris to give us

792
00:37:53,450 --> 00:37:55,093
a perspective on consortia.

793
00:37:56,340 --> 00:37:59,380
- Hi Chris, hi everybody
thanks for having me.

794
00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:01,470
So I'm Jill Morris I'm
the Executive Director

795
00:38:01,470 --> 00:38:03,880
of the PALCI consortium,

796
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,830
really glad to be here today to represent

797
00:38:05,830 --> 00:38:09,230
consortial interests in CDL.

798
00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:12,980
So a little bit about PALCI
I'll just fill in some

799
00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:16,320
background I can see some of
our members are here today.

800
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,639
We have 70 academic and research libraries

801
00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:23,200
in Pennsylvania, New York,
New Jersey, and West Virginia

802
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,630
that are members of this consortium.

803
00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:30,310
And a little bit of history
here we formed in the mid 90s,

804
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:32,730
really around resource sharing.

805
00:38:32,730 --> 00:38:37,390
How do we physically share our
lendable materials together?

806
00:38:37,390 --> 00:38:40,520
And the regionality of our
consortium is important

807
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,970
in that we wanted to be
able to get our materials

808
00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:45,600
back and forth to each
other really quickly.

809
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,120
And so that's been a
focus for our consortium

810
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,310
for more than 20 years now.

811
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:53,880
And we use every source sharing
system to connect disparate

812
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,040
ILS platforms together
so that we can check out

813
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,860
our materials to each other really quickly

814
00:38:59,860 --> 00:39:02,700
and in an unmediated sort of
fashion where we're saving

815
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:06,000
our staff time in making
those connections.

816
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,470
So with that as background
we've been running

817
00:39:09,470 --> 00:39:12,600
this resource sharing
network now for some time,

818
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:17,440
and obviously when the
pandemic hit, it hit us too

819
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,560
in consortia land and myself
and many of our colleagues

820
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,590
who also run consortial
resource sharing systems

821
00:39:24,590 --> 00:39:28,440
and borrowing networks
felt the pain of suddenly

822
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,160
having to shut those systems down

823
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,363
for the first time I think ever.

824
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:38,467
And so that was quite
a process to go through

825
00:39:38,467 --> 00:39:43,052
and a decision making process
that we had to sort of invent,

826
00:39:43,052 --> 00:39:46,670
as this happened and
really it hit home for us,

827
00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:49,530
sort of just the fragility
of our current system.

828
00:39:49,530 --> 00:39:54,050
We recognized that
access was really limited

829
00:39:54,050 --> 00:39:56,900
when our buildings, our
physical buildings are closed,

830
00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:00,290
even though we are still there
and ready to provide services

831
00:40:00,290 --> 00:40:02,920
from the libraries, the
libraries weren't really closed

832
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,890
it was really the
buildings that were closed

833
00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:07,008
and the access points.

834
00:40:07,008 --> 00:40:10,670
And you know, as a consortium
that frequently lends more

835
00:40:10,670 --> 00:40:12,740
than 150,000 physical items

836
00:40:12,740 --> 00:40:14,690
to each other throughout the year

837
00:40:14,690 --> 00:40:18,271
with more than 50 libraries participating,

838
00:40:18,271 --> 00:40:20,680
you know, how do you reinvent that?

839
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,030
And in a digital space and
controlled digital lending

840
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:25,440
was obviously something
that we had been thinking

841
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,210
about for some time
and I think we're gonna

842
00:40:27,210 --> 00:40:29,470
talk a little bit later about,

843
00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:32,980
Project ReShare, which is a
project that's really designed

844
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:35,544
to create some open source
tools around support

845
00:40:35,544 --> 00:40:39,083
of access methodologies
and resource sharing.

846
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:44,400
But clearly within PALCI
we had this, oh, oh

847
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,010
moment of how do we go ahead
and continue to provide

848
00:40:47,010 --> 00:40:50,350
that access that we know
our patrons are in need of.

849
00:40:50,350 --> 00:40:53,900
And so we got into this
conversation with many

850
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:56,470
of our institutions who told us

851
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:58,810
they could no longer lend to each other.

852
00:40:58,810 --> 00:41:03,230
And as of right now, we don't
have a consortial solution

853
00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:06,540
to this problem it's something
we're actively exploring

854
00:41:06,540 --> 00:41:08,730
as a part of conversations within

855
00:41:08,730 --> 00:41:11,320
the controlled digital
lending implementers group

856
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,880
that Tom just mentioned

857
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,620
as well as in inside of
Project ReShare and I'm sure

858
00:41:15,620 --> 00:41:17,110
we'll talk about that
in a few more minutes,

859
00:41:17,110 --> 00:41:21,450
but that's a little bit about
sort of why we're interested

860
00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:24,013
and how consortia are
coming to this conversation.

861
00:41:26,785 --> 00:41:28,170
- Thanks for that Jill.

862
00:41:28,170 --> 00:41:30,200
Let's stay in libraries and education

863
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,700
and let's go over to Lisa Petrides.

864
00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:35,250
Lisa why don't you tell us
what you've been working on

865
00:41:35,250 --> 00:41:38,153
and as it relates to
controlled digital lending.

866
00:41:39,010 --> 00:41:41,560
- Great, thank you, so
just a little bit too,

867
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,400
about what we do.

868
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,610
I work with an organization called ISKME

869
00:41:46,610 --> 00:41:48,760
it's a nonprofit that does a lot of work

870
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,240
around open educational
resources and in fact,

871
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:52,800
we've run a library

872
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,950
of digital educational resources

873
00:41:55,950 --> 00:41:58,680
that are openly licensed
and freely available.

874
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,660
So our work has really been
about access and equity

875
00:42:03,660 --> 00:42:06,970
with a mission around
social justice and education

876
00:42:06,970 --> 00:42:09,660
and the work around sort of the discovery

877
00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:13,080
and the collaboration around
open educational resources,

878
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,880
how you adapt them, how you adopt them.

879
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,735
These are all a lot of driving
questions that we look at.

880
00:42:19,735 --> 00:42:22,600
And just briefly some of you may know

881
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:27,600
that the education content
just in the K-12 area

882
00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:31,530
is about a six to
$8,000,000,000,000 a year market

883
00:42:32,590 --> 00:42:34,780
and higher education
it's a little different

884
00:42:34,780 --> 00:42:36,750
because taxpayers don't pay that money,

885
00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:39,390
but in fact, students do.

886
00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:43,264
And for example in
community colleges the cost

887
00:42:43,264 --> 00:42:47,540
of course materials and textbooks
is about three quarters,

888
00:42:47,540 --> 00:42:51,520
75% of their cost for education.

889
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,730
So controlled digital lending,

890
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:59,070
particularly as we started
to see COVID impact

891
00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:02,899
and we've heard already
from higher ed libraries,

892
00:43:02,899 --> 00:43:04,600
that's for example many of these students

893
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,000
who couldn't afford books
before would go into the library

894
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,180
to get materials on course reserves.

895
00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:13,520
And so of course now that
they couldn't get them

896
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,950
in their library they
couldn't just walk in the door

897
00:43:15,950 --> 00:43:17,310
there were a lot of libraries that didn't

898
00:43:17,310 --> 00:43:20,070
have the infrastructure to get things up

899
00:43:20,070 --> 00:43:21,960
and be able to lend course reserves

900
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,770
so controlled digital lending
was extremely important there.

901
00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:27,970
On the K-12 side.

902
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:31,560
What's really important
too, is even before COVID,

903
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:32,653
we've seen,

904
00:43:33,825 --> 00:43:36,810
in some cases I think the
numbers we've lost about 20%

905
00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:40,380
of our school libraries
in the last 15 years

906
00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:43,630
in some cities across the country,

907
00:43:43,630 --> 00:43:46,470
50% of those libraries schools no longer

908
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:48,660
have school libraries within them.

909
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:52,480
So this idea of how we can
increase access to books

910
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,833
for educators and learners
is really critical.

911
00:43:56,957 --> 00:44:01,260
Again pre COVID, but
certainly post COVID as well,

912
00:44:01,260 --> 00:44:03,550
because libraries are
closed during the pandemic

913
00:44:03,550 --> 00:44:07,530
and they're trying to
struggle to support readers.

914
00:44:07,530 --> 00:44:10,830
We saw this summer reading
programs that students

915
00:44:10,830 --> 00:44:12,720
didn't have access to the books.

916
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,520
So we are working and we'll
talk a little bit more

917
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,500
about this later on the
Universal School Library,

918
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,677
which is a partnership between ISKME

919
00:44:20,677 --> 00:44:23,660
and the Internet Archive
to actually create

920
00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:26,990
a digital public school library

921
00:44:26,990 --> 00:44:31,990
that could be available to
schools across the country.

922
00:44:33,730 --> 00:44:35,640
We're working on some pilots and I'll talk

923
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,370
a little bit more about that later,

924
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:40,190
but we really think that
creating this very strong

925
00:44:40,190 --> 00:44:44,060
ecosystem, you know,
around digital collections

926
00:44:44,060 --> 00:44:47,510
is gonna be so important to
support the curricular needs

927
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:51,320
of schools and high school
students, middle school students,

928
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,060
and even in the primary area as well.

929
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:54,893
Thank you.

930
00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:59,860
- Thanks Lisa and let's
go to Sebastian Hammer.

931
00:44:59,860 --> 00:45:01,640
Sebastian I'm interested
in your perspective

932
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,080
as a technologist and the
work that you've been doing

933
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,553
so can you catch us up to speed?

934
00:45:07,614 --> 00:45:10,240
- Thank you, Chris and hello everybody.

935
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:12,190
So my name is Sebastian.

936
00:45:12,190 --> 00:45:14,630
I am a Cofounder of a
little software company

937
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:16,180
called Index Data.

938
00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:19,440
We've been around for
about 26 years this year

939
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,020
and we are made up of about
roughly 20 or so people,

940
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:25,333
a mix of developers and librarians.

941
00:45:26,340 --> 00:45:29,570
We like creating technology
for libraries in particular,

942
00:45:29,570 --> 00:45:31,600
and that's what we've always
done we make software,

943
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,450
sometimes it's software that faces

944
00:45:33,450 --> 00:45:36,950
the patron and the end
user, sometimes it faces

945
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:40,503
the library staff person then
sometimes other developers.

946
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,320
But overall I think we
have sort of a real passion

947
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,460
for trying to enable libraries to do more,

948
00:45:46,460 --> 00:45:48,620
to provide better services
through technology

949
00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:52,790
and we particularly like the
dialogue that we can have

950
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:54,313
with the people using the technology

951
00:45:54,313 --> 00:45:56,960
and the people we collaborate
with and that's driven us

952
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,850
in the direction of releasing and working

953
00:45:58,850 --> 00:46:00,970
on a lot of Open-source software.

954
00:46:00,970 --> 00:46:03,930
So for the past four or
five years in particular,

955
00:46:03,930 --> 00:46:06,920
we've more or less moved extensively

956
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,770
towards community owned
technology project,

957
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:12,850
so we've worked as leading
developers and architects

958
00:46:12,850 --> 00:46:15,120
of the FOLIO library service platform

959
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,215
and we've worked very closely with Jill

960
00:46:18,215 --> 00:46:21,970
on Project ReShare as lead
technologists on that project

961
00:46:21,970 --> 00:46:25,090
so I've been immersed in
a way for the past four

962
00:46:25,090 --> 00:46:28,810
or five years in library
workflows and library processes

963
00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:30,590
and the way that libraries work internally

964
00:46:30,590 --> 00:46:33,050
to provide services to their patrons.

965
00:46:33,050 --> 00:46:36,280
So my lens for controlled digital lending

966
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,373
has very much been how
does it fit into the way

967
00:46:38,373 --> 00:46:40,990
that the library operates internally?

968
00:46:40,990 --> 00:46:45,140
How can you make CDL and
everyday part of the way

969
00:46:45,140 --> 00:46:47,260
that the library does business internally

970
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:48,790
and the way that it delivers services?

971
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:51,820
I think it's super exciting
I've been a fan of CDL

972
00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:54,568
since we really started
exploring it in the FOLIO project

973
00:46:54,568 --> 00:46:56,790
about three or four years ago,

974
00:46:56,790 --> 00:47:00,230
and I've attended one of your
leadership forums, Chris,

975
00:47:00,230 --> 00:47:01,880
and I'm a huge fan,

976
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,470
but I'm really kind of curious about

977
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:07,920
how we can build technology
that will enable libraries

978
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,590
to pull it in and make it
part of their processes

979
00:47:11,590 --> 00:47:14,153
what does it look like for
CDL to become an everyday

980
00:47:14,153 --> 00:47:16,993
part of how libraries deliver content?

981
00:47:18,260 --> 00:47:20,730
I think the service that the
Internet Archive provides

982
00:47:20,730 --> 00:47:25,640
is astonishingly good, it's
powerful, it's Webscale,

983
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:30,260
but I also see a real needs and
desire for libraries control

984
00:47:30,260 --> 00:47:32,670
some of the processes and some
of the mechanisms themselves,

985
00:47:32,670 --> 00:47:34,303
especially here during COVID.

986
00:47:35,370 --> 00:47:40,370
Where you may see CDL as a
vehicle by which libraries

987
00:47:40,770 --> 00:47:42,591
can provide access to
content that's otherwise

988
00:47:42,591 --> 00:47:45,010
just straight up sequestered
when the whole collection

989
00:47:45,010 --> 00:47:47,370
is sequestered essentially
including content

990
00:47:47,370 --> 00:47:49,740
that isn't already digitized,
what does it look like?

991
00:47:49,740 --> 00:47:51,300
What are the processes look like?

992
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:54,440
How do you apply policies
within the library?

993
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,540
So I come to this very much thinking

994
00:47:56,540 --> 00:47:58,874
about those kinds of needs
so we spent some time

995
00:47:58,874 --> 00:48:02,650
in Project ReShare thinking
about how that unfolds

996
00:48:02,650 --> 00:48:07,430
into specific functional
needs software to sign.

997
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:10,850
I hope to explore that more
with you guys today as well.

998
00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:12,790
But I very much come at it
from a perspective of again,

999
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:15,144
of what library processes
and how that translates

1000
00:48:15,144 --> 00:48:18,610
into technology needs and
how we really make CDL

1001
00:48:18,610 --> 00:48:23,440
an everyday pot of just the
whole kind of happiest services

1002
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,140
that makes up what a library does.

1003
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:28,600
- Yeah thanks for that
Sebastian, you know,

1004
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,610
that is a question that we get

1005
00:48:30,610 --> 00:48:33,240
more than anything actually when we talk

1006
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:35,460
about our controlled
digital lending environment,

1007
00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:36,880
it's libraries asking, well,

1008
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,510
how do I fit this into my workflows?

1009
00:48:38,510 --> 00:48:40,470
How do I fit this into
my existing systems?

1010
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:43,960
And I think that's sort of
where we're wanting to go

1011
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,420
and have those conversations
that's you know

1012
00:48:45,420 --> 00:48:48,080
part of joining that larger
community of practice is,

1013
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,970
you know, it used to just be
a small number of libraries

1014
00:48:50,970 --> 00:48:53,070
that were doing controlled digital lending

1015
00:48:54,170 --> 00:48:56,620
now that there are more that we wanna make

1016
00:48:56,620 --> 00:48:58,150
those hooks into our collections

1017
00:48:58,150 --> 00:49:00,650
and into our existing workflow
so that it's just part

1018
00:49:00,650 --> 00:49:04,660
of library operations you
know, it is a library practice

1019
00:49:04,660 --> 00:49:06,110
that's been going for
more than nine years,

1020
00:49:06,110 --> 00:49:08,460
there are hundreds of libraries
that are doing it now,

1021
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:10,320
let's build it into our system

1022
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,233
so that it's just mainstreamed.

1023
00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:17,500
We've talked a through line of COVID-19

1024
00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:19,780
and obviously I mean, it's inescapable,

1025
00:49:19,780 --> 00:49:23,550
it's part of our every day.

1026
00:49:23,550 --> 00:49:25,970
I would like to hear
just a little bit more

1027
00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:29,497
from each of you have how COVID
is impacting your operations

1028
00:49:29,497 --> 00:49:32,370
and what that means for
how you're considering

1029
00:49:32,370 --> 00:49:34,510
controlled digital lending and
so Tucker I'd like to start

1030
00:49:34,510 --> 00:49:37,900
with you you know, you're
really on the front lines,

1031
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:40,130
you and you were staff so can you tell us,

1032
00:49:40,130 --> 00:49:42,230
like, what's it like on the front lines

1033
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:43,560
and how is your semester going?

1034
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,033
Is everything okay, really?

1035
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,170
- Yeah.

1036
00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:51,780
It's going.

1037
00:49:51,780 --> 00:49:54,330
Honestly, it's not as bad
as I thought it would be.

1038
00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:57,870
I don't wanna minimize the strain

1039
00:49:57,870 --> 00:49:59,583
this has put my staff under.

1040
00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:02,460
It has been very, very hard

1041
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:04,210
for the people who are on the front lines.

1042
00:50:04,210 --> 00:50:07,490
I am very grateful that
they're here with me

1043
00:50:07,490 --> 00:50:10,743
and I know that they
are working very hard.

1044
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,550
I am very grateful that we
have controlled digital lending

1045
00:50:15,550 --> 00:50:18,660
again, to support my staff
because the short term checkout

1046
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:20,630
wouldn't just affect the
students who were holding

1047
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:23,580
these books, but also the staff
that have to hand them out.

1048
00:50:26,490 --> 00:50:30,520
We're able to our desks closed
and provide books by demand

1049
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,810
and leave them out for patrons
in a way that is contactless,

1050
00:50:33,810 --> 00:50:35,490
so that's important to us,

1051
00:50:35,490 --> 00:50:40,490
but I think that it's exactly
what you would probably think

1052
00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:43,940
it would be for anybody
who's frontline working

1053
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:47,800
with people right now, so
that's what COVID's like.

1054
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,193
- What about your students,

1055
00:50:50,444 --> 00:50:53,040
how are they adapting?

1056
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,440
And are they using
materials that are offered

1057
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,180
through controlled digital lending?

1058
00:50:57,180 --> 00:50:58,123
- Absolutely.

1059
00:50:59,230 --> 00:51:02,500
I have found that it was
harder to reach our faculty

1060
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:05,590
right now, I think because
the stress and the pressure

1061
00:51:05,590 --> 00:51:08,020
that everyone is under so
getting them to go directly

1062
00:51:08,020 --> 00:51:09,137
to the students and to say,

1063
00:51:09,137 --> 00:51:11,287
"Hey, here's the thing you can use."

1064
00:51:12,730 --> 00:51:15,510
They don't have the
same enthusiasm I have,

1065
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:17,270
but the students have been very grateful

1066
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:18,940
I mean I'm sure it's a shock to everyone

1067
00:51:18,940 --> 00:51:21,930
that students in South Carolina
are affected by poverty.

1068
00:51:21,930 --> 00:51:24,960
But, you know this has been
very helpful for our students

1069
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,340
many of whom can't afford a
$400 textbook and that is really

1070
00:51:28,340 --> 00:51:30,510
what some of them cost right now.

1071
00:51:30,510 --> 00:51:32,120
It's ridiculous.

1072
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,650
Sorry.

1073
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:34,970
But yes.

1074
00:51:34,970 --> 00:51:37,500
So, you know I'm grateful
that we're able to be able

1075
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:39,590
to help our students in this way.

1076
00:51:39,590 --> 00:51:41,340
- Yeah, there's a very real equity

1077
00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:44,430
argument around controlled
digital lending and that comes

1078
00:51:44,430 --> 00:51:46,806
through in all the
conversations that we have.

1079
00:51:46,806 --> 00:51:47,800
- Absolutely.

1080
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,060
- Yeah, Tom I'm interested
in your perspective

1081
00:51:51,060 --> 00:51:53,570
and your experience at
Stanford, is it similar

1082
00:51:53,570 --> 00:51:55,920
to what Tucker is describing
in South Carolina?

1083
00:51:57,370 --> 00:52:02,060
- It's a quarter unlike any
other except for maybe spring,

1084
00:52:02,060 --> 00:52:05,520
we're really concerned with
kind of two general cases

1085
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,123
of users, one is course reserves,

1086
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,600
over the summer we're trying to figure

1087
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,200
out how we were gonna do course reserves,

1088
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,260
we didn't know until
about three weeks before,

1089
00:52:14,260 --> 00:52:16,360
who would be on campus if anyone.

1090
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,600
So Stanford right now
our graduate students

1091
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,890
are largely back on campus,
but undergraduates are not.

1092
00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:25,290
So we're trying to figure out
how do we do course reserves,

1093
00:52:25,290 --> 00:52:26,820
can we do physical?

1094
00:52:26,820 --> 00:52:29,570
And we have this elaborate
plan to do both physical

1095
00:52:29,570 --> 00:52:32,000
and digital until someone pointed
out what Tucker just said,

1096
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,590
is why would you give a
possibly infected book

1097
00:52:34,590 --> 00:52:37,300
to another person and
pass it along every hour?

1098
00:52:37,300 --> 00:52:39,710
So we said, oh, let's just do digital.

1099
00:52:39,710 --> 00:52:42,370
Though it did take us awhile to get there.

1100
00:52:42,370 --> 00:52:45,640
So we are doing only
digital for course reserves,

1101
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,660
a lot of the instructors
have really changed

1102
00:52:49,810 --> 00:52:52,200
what they're putting
onto their reading lists

1103
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,190
and their syllabus but of course you know,

1104
00:52:54,190 --> 00:52:57,250
they have sometimes years
of instruction built

1105
00:52:57,250 --> 00:52:59,590
around particular cases,
so that's easier said

1106
00:52:59,590 --> 00:53:01,150
than done in some cases.

1107
00:53:01,150 --> 00:53:04,190
So yeah, we're really
emphasizing digitized materials

1108
00:53:04,190 --> 00:53:07,010
for course reserves for the first time,

1109
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:08,530
because we're just going live this week

1110
00:53:08,530 --> 00:53:10,330
that is not playing a major factor,

1111
00:53:10,330 --> 00:53:13,410
but we do think for the
remaining academic quarters

1112
00:53:13,410 --> 00:53:15,360
of this year and we'll see
what happens next year,

1113
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:16,920
what that looks like.

1114
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,620
The other big case though we
have is remote researchers,

1115
00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:24,533
so in spring quarter we had probably,

1116
00:53:25,370 --> 00:53:27,990
we have multiple cases of PhD candidates

1117
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:29,680
who were trying to
finish their dissertation

1118
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,830
after seven or 10 years of study,

1119
00:53:31,830 --> 00:53:35,089
they needed one, two or
three books that only existed

1120
00:53:35,089 --> 00:53:38,820
in hard copy in our library to
complete their dissertation.

1121
00:53:38,820 --> 00:53:40,900
And they were not at Stanford,

1122
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:42,740
and what were we going to do?

1123
00:53:42,740 --> 00:53:44,211
So we have these really,

1124
00:53:44,211 --> 00:53:45,960
it's like I just need
to check one citation,

1125
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,640
I just need this one
chapter, what can we do?

1126
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,370
And so we think that's the
other really big class of user

1127
00:53:52,370 --> 00:53:55,240
and that's one that we're
gearing up to start supporting

1128
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:56,073
this week.

1129
00:53:57,790 --> 00:54:02,790
- I'd like to kinda follow
that line a bit with Lisa,

1130
00:54:03,010 --> 00:54:06,150
so Tom, you mentioned
instructors who were having

1131
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:09,040
to swap materials in and
out based on availability

1132
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,395
and Lisa I'm curious if that's
come up in the conversations

1133
00:54:11,395 --> 00:54:13,960
you've had among the educational community

1134
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,210
that you work with and I know

1135
00:54:16,210 --> 00:54:18,750
that open educational resources and OER

1136
00:54:18,750 --> 00:54:21,060
is something that's, you know
near and dear to your heart,

1137
00:54:21,060 --> 00:54:24,670
are people starting to look
for other kinds of materials

1138
00:54:24,670 --> 00:54:27,210
to incorporate into their courses?

1139
00:54:27,210 --> 00:54:29,410
- Absolutely, as I mentioned before,

1140
00:54:29,410 --> 00:54:32,462
I mean COVID has just really
served to kind of exacerbate

1141
00:54:32,462 --> 00:54:35,560
a situation that's really
inequitable around access

1142
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,770
to education resources,
and so what we're finding,

1143
00:54:39,770 --> 00:54:41,930
again both on the K-12 and higher ed side,

1144
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:44,640
for example classroom teachers,

1145
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,770
many of them left, you
know their classrooms

1146
00:54:47,770 --> 00:54:50,950
with their books, you
know for the years sitting

1147
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:53,560
on the shelves in their classrooms.

1148
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,950
And so now they're able to find materials,

1149
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:58,520
particularly through the Internet Archive

1150
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,920
and controlled digital lending
that they can actually use

1151
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,583
again to create assignments
from, to assign to students,

1152
00:55:07,583 --> 00:55:10,190
you know, certain passages of.

1153
00:55:10,190 --> 00:55:14,150
So, you know overnight these
materials were just gone

1154
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:16,640
in particular again,
in the K-12 classrooms,

1155
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,650
which aren't very well resourced.

1156
00:55:19,650 --> 00:55:22,520
It was just absolutely critical

1157
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,123
to have these kinds of materials for them.

1158
00:55:26,453 --> 00:55:28,950
And similar to Tom, you know
we heard that there were a lot

1159
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:32,050
of stories of librarians helping
desperate students finish

1160
00:55:32,050 --> 00:55:36,310
their thesis and their
dissertations with missing resources

1161
00:55:36,310 --> 00:55:37,560
that they had to get them in,

1162
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,150
but they had no physical access to.

1163
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:42,090
What's really interesting,

1164
00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:45,740
on the open educational
resource site or OER

1165
00:55:45,740 --> 00:55:50,070
is there has absolutely
been an uptake in the folks

1166
00:55:50,070 --> 00:55:54,080
who are now looking to our
open education libraries,

1167
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,080
because there are in fact
textbooks that cover,

1168
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:03,080
most of sort of the kind of
first two years of college,

1169
00:56:05,180 --> 00:56:09,360
sort of general studies,
basic core courses,

1170
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,040
and those textbooks are
all freely available

1171
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,710
and we're now having
students who are maybe

1172
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:17,670
there was a required physics
books that did cost $400

1173
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:21,090
as Tucker said, but they're able to find,

1174
00:56:21,090 --> 00:56:24,330
for example an OpenStax
textbook has roughly

1175
00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:27,540
the same material and
enables them to, you know,

1176
00:56:27,540 --> 00:56:30,930
study for their exams,
complete their assignments,

1177
00:56:30,930 --> 00:56:34,650
with a resource that is
absolutely freely available

1178
00:56:34,650 --> 00:56:39,173
and openly licensed and can be adapted,

1179
00:56:40,340 --> 00:56:44,464
for language use, for additional
examples, for assessments.

1180
00:56:44,464 --> 00:56:49,090
So we're seeing this blend
in a way that is terrific

1181
00:56:49,090 --> 00:56:51,800
because it really for us if
you think about the issue

1182
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,890
of being, you know, access to
education and democratizing

1183
00:56:55,890 --> 00:57:00,890
that access to education,
really the advent of CDL

1184
00:57:01,630 --> 00:57:03,500
with open educational resources

1185
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:05,690
is kind of the perfect storm.

1186
00:57:05,690 --> 00:57:08,480
Because even though from
the open access advocates,

1187
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,110
they'd rather see all of the
textbooks be open, right?

1188
00:57:11,110 --> 00:57:13,240
But that's not necessarily the case today

1189
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:15,850
in many subject areas.

1190
00:57:15,850 --> 00:57:20,370
But if faculty or teachers
can be creating content

1191
00:57:20,370 --> 00:57:24,100
that is openly licensed, and
even if they are then leading

1192
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:26,910
a primary source and being
able to point to whether

1193
00:57:26,910 --> 00:57:30,940
it's a passage or a preview,
or actually to be go take

1194
00:57:30,940 --> 00:57:32,530
that book out and check it out

1195
00:57:32,530 --> 00:57:35,740
from a library using
controlled digital lending,

1196
00:57:35,740 --> 00:57:40,157
we've sort of begun to close
the gap of accessibility

1197
00:57:40,157 --> 00:57:41,973
to education content.

1198
00:57:44,500 --> 00:57:46,450
- So I didn't mention at the start,

1199
00:57:46,450 --> 00:57:49,430
but I am a librarian and
I actually got my start

1200
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:52,380
in academic libraries when
I was a student worker,

1201
00:57:52,380 --> 00:57:55,981
working in circulation
so Tucker, yeah, yup.

1202
00:57:55,981 --> 00:57:59,370
I am very familiar from you know

1203
00:57:59,370 --> 00:58:01,835
from that student worker
perspective all the way up to,

1204
00:58:01,835 --> 00:58:03,830
you know, working as an
associate university librarian

1205
00:58:03,830 --> 00:58:05,350
in an academic library.

1206
00:58:05,350 --> 00:58:07,860
And I always say that the library

1207
00:58:07,860 --> 00:58:11,040
is where it all falls apart,
like students keep it together

1208
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,330
in the classroom, but they
come into their safe space

1209
00:58:13,330 --> 00:58:15,690
in the library and you
come to the front desk

1210
00:58:15,690 --> 00:58:17,790
and it's the librarians
that are at the front desk

1211
00:58:17,790 --> 00:58:20,290
that actually end up
with all of that stress

1212
00:58:20,290 --> 00:58:23,650
and angst sort of pouring out from them.

1213
00:58:23,650 --> 00:58:26,960
And so it's an incredibly
stressful environment,

1214
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,660
so the librarians and the
educators that are working

1215
00:58:30,660 --> 00:58:32,710
those front lines, you
know, in the classroom,

1216
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:35,070
they're with the interactions
with the students,

1217
00:58:35,070 --> 00:58:38,220
that's a different kind of
stress for the librarians

1218
00:58:39,779 --> 00:58:42,160
and for the librarians who are
a little bit more back office

1219
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,840
and behind the scenes
and so Jill I'm curious

1220
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,663
from your perspective,
you know the consortia,

1221
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:52,880
it's not quite as right in
front with the, you know

1222
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,080
meeting students where they are,

1223
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,870
but I'm curious if you've gotten that sort

1224
00:58:58,870 --> 00:59:01,770
of immediate feedback on your operations

1225
00:59:01,770 --> 00:59:03,913
and your activities and how it's helping.

1226
00:59:05,260 --> 00:59:09,707
- Yeah so with our
current E-Z Borrow system,

1227
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,750
we had to shut it down
as I mentioned earlier,

1228
00:59:12,750 --> 00:59:15,850
in terms of borrowing and
lending across the consortium

1229
00:59:15,850 --> 00:59:19,230
and it's amazing to me,
it was sort of this moment

1230
00:59:19,230 --> 00:59:22,015
of recognition of just
how much of a brand name

1231
00:59:22,015 --> 00:59:27,000
that name E-Z Borrow
carries for our users.

1232
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,390
They were going into their
libraries and saying,

1233
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:31,957
or rather emailing, or
trying to figure out,

1234
00:59:31,957 --> 00:59:35,840
you know, how do I get this
thing through E-Z Borrow?

1235
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,810
And unfortunately it took a
pandemic to sort of bring some

1236
00:59:38,810 --> 00:59:42,700
of that to light, but it
really did demonstrate I think

1237
00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:45,860
just how meaningful the service
was to so many of our users

1238
00:59:45,860 --> 00:59:47,193
who really rely on it.

1239
00:59:48,130 --> 00:59:51,590
As I mentioned, you know we
don't have a consortial solution

1240
00:59:51,590 --> 00:59:53,760
to control digital lending today,

1241
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,160
I have been holding for a
while there weekly meetings

1242
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,500
of our deans and directors
across the entire consortium

1243
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:04,210
who were meeting together
to try and deal with some

1244
01:00:04,210 --> 01:00:07,970
of these challenges because
they were so worried

1245
01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:11,430
about how to provide
services to their users.

1246
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:13,160
And so I was hearing
from deans and directors

1247
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,140
of lots of different libraries,

1248
01:00:15,140 --> 01:00:19,438
about lots of different challenges,
budgetary and otherwise.

1249
01:00:19,438 --> 01:00:24,100
And the issue that many of
them are seeing is, you know,

1250
01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:26,800
how do we continue to provide
access to these investments

1251
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,230
that we've made in our physical buildings

1252
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:32,608
and how do we provide
that in a way that scales

1253
01:00:32,608 --> 01:00:36,540
and is an extension of
what we're already doing?

1254
01:00:36,540 --> 01:00:38,690
And so that's the call I've been hearing

1255
01:00:38,690 --> 01:00:40,593
from our library deans and directors.

1256
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,590
The consortium is a space
where we often collectively

1257
01:00:44,590 --> 01:00:46,260
license new material,

1258
01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:49,220
we go out and we try to
acquire collections together,

1259
01:00:49,220 --> 01:00:51,240
we try to buy them when we can,

1260
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,850
but there are many cases where
they're just not available

1261
01:00:53,850 --> 01:00:56,790
or where we already
own that print material

1262
01:00:56,790 --> 01:00:59,470
and they can't justify
another investment in that.

1263
01:00:59,470 --> 01:01:02,020
How do we go ahead and get
that item we already own

1264
01:01:02,020 --> 01:01:04,260
in the hands of the user
that actually needs it?

1265
01:01:04,260 --> 01:01:06,840
So that's what I'm hearing from our users.

1266
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,490
We've just started getting
our resource sharing system

1267
01:01:09,490 --> 01:01:11,860
back up and running in September,

1268
01:01:11,860 --> 01:01:15,060
we've got maybe two thirds
of our libraries lending

1269
01:01:15,060 --> 01:01:17,344
and borrowing again,
but the quantity though,

1270
01:01:17,344 --> 01:01:20,750
it's way down for what a
typical fall would look like.

1271
01:01:20,750 --> 01:01:24,130
So we know there is need
there, that's not being met.

1272
01:01:24,130 --> 01:01:27,450
And it's just really
difficult to do that at scale,

1273
01:01:27,450 --> 01:01:30,770
some of our individual
institutions have worked

1274
01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:33,730
in different ways of providing
materials to their users,

1275
01:01:33,730 --> 01:01:36,390
lots of variety of different
types of service models,

1276
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:38,770
some of what you've heard here already,

1277
01:01:38,770 --> 01:01:42,150
but they're really looking
to us for scalable solutions.

1278
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:44,490
And that's part of why
we're really interested

1279
01:01:44,490 --> 01:01:46,157
in working on Project ReShare

1280
01:01:46,157 --> 01:01:49,620
and the open source
resource sharing community,

1281
01:01:49,620 --> 01:01:51,280
trying to supply those solutions,

1282
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,350
those tools that people need.

1283
01:01:53,350 --> 01:01:55,010
And we're not there yet, unfortunately

1284
01:01:55,010 --> 01:01:58,160
so I hope that this is
sort of a call to action

1285
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,570
for many of the folks on the
call today to get involved

1286
01:02:01,570 --> 01:02:04,730
in those types of activities,
to support the development

1287
01:02:04,730 --> 01:02:08,980
of innovation and tools that
really will scale and help us,

1288
01:02:08,980 --> 01:02:10,943
you know, provide access to materials.

1289
01:02:12,490 --> 01:02:14,640
- Yeah, it's interesting Jill that you use

1290
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,010
the term investment 'cause
that's one that we've used too,

1291
01:02:18,010 --> 01:02:20,180
in having conversations with policy makers

1292
01:02:20,180 --> 01:02:23,300
and with, you know, members
of Congress and staffers,

1293
01:02:23,300 --> 01:02:27,410
and it is a bipartisan,
nonpartisan approach

1294
01:02:27,410 --> 01:02:30,100
that really resonates when we talk

1295
01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:33,150
about the massive investment
that public institutions,

1296
01:02:33,150 --> 01:02:35,870
you know, public
universities, public schools

1297
01:02:35,870 --> 01:02:38,650
have made in their print
resource materials,

1298
01:02:38,650 --> 01:02:43,070
that is an enormous investment
that in the early days

1299
01:02:43,070 --> 01:02:46,970
of the pandemic were completely
disconnected from the reader

1300
01:02:46,970 --> 01:02:48,980
so, you know the public
had made an investment

1301
01:02:48,980 --> 01:02:51,460
in these resources and they
didn't have access to them,

1302
01:02:51,460 --> 01:02:54,840
and so it's a message
that really resonates

1303
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,677
with a number of people.

1304
01:02:56,677 --> 01:02:59,060
And also to the point of budget,

1305
01:02:59,060 --> 01:03:00,510
we've heard in our conversations,

1306
01:03:00,510 --> 01:03:05,249
as I'm sure many of you have,
you know, library budgets are,

1307
01:03:05,249 --> 01:03:10,249
you know, rolled back by
40% here's one example,

1308
01:03:10,300 --> 01:03:12,616
was rolled back by 40%
just to make it through

1309
01:03:12,616 --> 01:03:16,130
the last fiscal year and now
going forward we're looking at,

1310
01:03:16,130 --> 01:03:20,890
you know 25 to 30%
permanent budget reductions,

1311
01:03:20,890 --> 01:03:24,133
and you know, being a former
administrator in a library,

1312
01:03:27,762 --> 01:03:31,179
the major buckets of the budget is staff,

1313
01:03:32,020 --> 01:03:35,260
and your database
subscriptions and collections,

1314
01:03:35,260 --> 01:03:38,940
and no library wants either
one of those things to be hit.

1315
01:03:38,940 --> 01:03:40,835
I'd like to move our conversation

1316
01:03:40,835 --> 01:03:44,447
now back to that infrastructure
and the scale Jill

1317
01:03:44,447 --> 01:03:46,728
that you were talking about.

1318
01:03:46,728 --> 01:03:49,190
We've mentioned a couple of times here,

1319
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:53,041
Project ReShare and Tom,
you mentioned that you

1320
01:03:53,041 --> 01:03:58,041
and that Jill and Sebastian
are part of Project ReShare

1321
01:03:58,070 --> 01:04:01,500
and of the CDLI group
that has come from that,

1322
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:04,510
I wonder if the three of
you could sort of talk

1323
01:04:04,510 --> 01:04:09,443
about what Project ReShare is,
maybe Jill could you start?

1324
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:11,510
- Sure.

1325
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:15,547
So Project ReShare formed
in around mid 2018,

1326
01:04:15,547 --> 01:04:19,170
when a number of consortia
resource sharing entities

1327
01:04:19,170 --> 01:04:21,110
were coming together.

1328
01:04:21,110 --> 01:04:23,630
Hitting up against some
challenges that we felt

1329
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:25,421
we were all facing.

1330
01:04:25,421 --> 01:04:28,400
And, a number of my consortial colleagues,

1331
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,963
some of whom are listening here today,

1332
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,660
really felt like we were hitting a wall

1333
01:04:35,660 --> 01:04:37,420
that we couldn't sort of climb over.

1334
01:04:37,420 --> 01:04:41,920
And in conversation with a
number of technology providers,

1335
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,190
including Sebastian and Index Data,

1336
01:04:45,190 --> 01:04:46,580
we started sort of came to the conclusion

1337
01:04:46,580 --> 01:04:49,040
that we needed some alternative options

1338
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,769
for supportive resource sharing activities

1339
01:04:51,769 --> 01:04:53,980
in libraries today.

1340
01:04:53,980 --> 01:04:57,900
And that sort of
conversation really formed

1341
01:04:57,900 --> 01:05:00,083
into what became Project ReShare.

1342
01:05:01,020 --> 01:05:03,040
I'm currently Chair of
the Steering Committee

1343
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,960
for the project and so we've
been in place now since

1344
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,084
we met in Philadelphia area in 2018

1345
01:05:11,084 --> 01:05:14,600
and just a little while
ago at the end of August,

1346
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,800
we released our first
software product release

1347
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,310
ReShare Returnables 1.0,
which there's a press release

1348
01:05:21,310 --> 01:05:23,700
on the website projectreshare.org,

1349
01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:26,353
if you'd like to take a
look and see a demo of that.

1350
01:05:27,650 --> 01:05:29,810
But this community really came together

1351
01:05:29,810 --> 01:05:33,140
as a community looking
to only infrastructure

1352
01:05:33,140 --> 01:05:36,920
that we were creating,
looking to provide connections

1353
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,350
with lots of other systems,

1354
01:05:38,350 --> 01:05:41,310
taking system agnostic approaches to try

1355
01:05:41,310 --> 01:05:43,790
and connect different libraries together,

1356
01:05:43,790 --> 01:05:46,690
and to allow us to continue
to innovate in this space,

1357
01:05:46,690 --> 01:05:49,120
and Sebastian can really speak

1358
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,300
to the innovation aspects of this,

1359
01:05:51,300 --> 01:05:53,640
some of what we're trying
to accomplish here.

1360
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,110
But the thing that really
just excited me about it,

1361
01:05:56,110 --> 01:06:00,590
was the idea that we could
address some of the concerns

1362
01:06:00,590 --> 01:06:02,170
that many of us were feeling around

1363
01:06:02,170 --> 01:06:06,930
marketplace consolidation
and the ability to innovate

1364
01:06:06,930 --> 01:06:09,710
on the services that we
were providing to patrons.

1365
01:06:09,710 --> 01:06:13,130
And I think ReShare has this
wonderful vision for how it can

1366
01:06:13,130 --> 01:06:16,370
take resource sharing and make
it really a holistic piece

1367
01:06:17,242 --> 01:06:20,170
of what we do of collections
more generally than just sort

1368
01:06:20,170 --> 01:06:22,570
of the resource sharing
transactional approaches

1369
01:06:22,570 --> 01:06:25,230
that we tend to think of
with interlibrary lending,

1370
01:06:25,230 --> 01:06:28,250
so maybe Sebastian,
I'll turn it over to you

1371
01:06:28,250 --> 01:06:30,193
to fill in some of the gaps there.

1372
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,060
- Sure, does that work for you, Chris?

1373
01:06:38,070 --> 01:06:41,730
I mean that's a wonderful
introduction to the project, Jill.

1374
01:06:41,730 --> 01:06:44,790
From my perspective as a
technologist what's so exciting

1375
01:06:44,790 --> 01:06:48,190
about ReShare is the extent
to which it brings together

1376
01:06:48,190 --> 01:06:50,560
a lot of different kind of
players around the same table.

1377
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,430
So we've got technology
developers and service providers,

1378
01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:55,250
we've got libraries, we have consortia,

1379
01:06:55,250 --> 01:06:59,860
and what results is a really
fruitful exciting conversation

1380
01:06:59,860 --> 01:07:02,090
all the way from a strategy level,

1381
01:07:02,090 --> 01:07:04,440
where does resource sharing
fit into a larger picture

1382
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:07,310
of libraries working together
and ultimately trying

1383
01:07:07,310 --> 01:07:09,280
to break down barriers between collections

1384
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,670
and between individual
libraries and their processes,

1385
01:07:12,670 --> 01:07:15,120
all the way down to how
we designed the software.

1386
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,970
The intersection with CDL
to me is really interesting

1387
01:07:18,970 --> 01:07:20,380
from a technology perspective

1388
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:22,493
because it actually kinda came about.

1389
01:07:23,690 --> 01:07:27,610
We started talking about
the impact of COVID

1390
01:07:27,610 --> 01:07:30,130
I think as early as around
March and we could see

1391
01:07:30,130 --> 01:07:33,687
that it was going to really
mess up the spring semester

1392
01:07:33,687 --> 01:07:37,090
and it seemed very likely that
it will last until the fall.

1393
01:07:37,090 --> 01:07:39,090
And at the time,

1394
01:07:39,090 --> 01:07:40,857
one of the main focal
points of Project ReShare

1395
01:07:40,857 --> 01:07:44,980
is to try to enable libraries
collectively to emulate some

1396
01:07:44,980 --> 01:07:47,620
of the service experience that
people have come to expect

1397
01:07:47,620 --> 01:07:49,720
from Amazon and from other,

1398
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,010
just kind of web-scale
providers of services.

1399
01:07:52,010 --> 01:07:55,640
And one of the ways we do
that is to try to create tools

1400
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,100
that allows information
and materials to flow

1401
01:07:58,100 --> 01:08:00,100
between libraries in a really sleek way,

1402
01:08:00,100 --> 01:08:03,700
so we were actually going to
spend a lot of this summer

1403
01:08:03,700 --> 01:08:06,700
working on logistics and integration

1404
01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:08,350
with shipping platforms.

1405
01:08:08,350 --> 01:08:11,110
We already have the mechanisms
for request management

1406
01:08:11,110 --> 01:08:13,920
and placing orders and interacting

1407
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,660
with the library management
to authenticate patrons

1408
01:08:16,660 --> 01:08:19,260
and check materials out, but
we were really gonna focus

1409
01:08:19,260 --> 01:08:22,669
on the practical material
handling side of the project

1410
01:08:22,669 --> 01:08:26,700
and boom, the material
handling side of consortia

1411
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:28,340
and interlearning shot down completely

1412
01:08:28,340 --> 01:08:31,620
and we were kind of left
spinning our wheels.

1413
01:08:31,620 --> 01:08:33,660
And that's when we started
to talk about whether

1414
01:08:33,660 --> 01:08:37,530
there was an opportunity for
ReShare to take a sideways step

1415
01:08:37,530 --> 01:08:40,750
and look into whether
the CDL could be part

1416
01:08:40,750 --> 01:08:45,750
of the mixed services that
we provided and in my mind,

1417
01:08:46,060 --> 01:08:49,730
it kinda started as almost
a hack, if you will.

1418
01:08:49,730 --> 01:08:52,040
The idea was that we
already had this technology

1419
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,330
that could interface with
the library management system

1420
01:08:54,330 --> 01:08:58,480
that had a model for managing
patron requests for things.

1421
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:02,600
So we could apply that to
supporting CDL by providing

1422
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,946
a front end to the
library's catalog and enable

1423
01:09:05,946 --> 01:09:09,240
the library to work for those processes.

1424
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,940
But it became, I think more
than that as we started

1425
01:09:11,940 --> 01:09:14,393
to dig into it, we had a working group.

1426
01:09:15,270 --> 01:09:16,930
We were lucky enough that Duke University

1427
01:09:16,930 --> 01:09:18,530
is part of Project ReShare.

1428
01:09:18,530 --> 01:09:21,690
So David Hanson volunteered
to join a little working group

1429
01:09:21,690 --> 01:09:23,730
together with other people from Duke,

1430
01:09:23,730 --> 01:09:26,959
some people from New York
university and we kinda sat down

1431
01:09:26,959 --> 01:09:30,950
and set out to interpret
the CDL white paper,

1432
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:33,050
which I'm a huge fan.

1433
01:09:33,050 --> 01:09:35,650
I think it's just an awesome
document and funny too.

1434
01:09:37,290 --> 01:09:40,433
We set out to interpret that
from a standpoint of technology

1435
01:09:40,433 --> 01:09:43,090
and library workflows,
what does it actually mean

1436
01:09:43,090 --> 01:09:44,970
to do CDL within a library?

1437
01:09:44,970 --> 01:09:48,590
How does CDL match up with mechanisms

1438
01:09:48,590 --> 01:09:51,080
for providing resource access in general?

1439
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:54,430
Known rules, circulation,
rules, the role of the catalog

1440
01:09:54,430 --> 01:09:59,170
and so on and we came up
with a really strong mission

1441
01:09:59,170 --> 01:10:01,120
for that but more than that,

1442
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,060
we actually started to get
really excited about sort

1443
01:10:04,060 --> 01:10:08,640
of the idea of libraries
working together in a consortia

1444
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,690
or across library boundaries
to provide CDL services.

1445
01:10:12,690 --> 01:10:14,240
One of the things that ReShare also does

1446
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,655
is it allows libraries to
communicate with each other

1447
01:10:16,655 --> 01:10:19,060
using basically an Open Protocol,

1448
01:10:19,060 --> 01:10:22,150
a language that allows one
library to place a request

1449
01:10:22,150 --> 01:10:26,128
and to track the exchange of
the rights to a certain IP,

1450
01:10:26,128 --> 01:10:27,850
whether you're sending that physically

1451
01:10:27,850 --> 01:10:29,053
or sending it virtually.

1452
01:10:30,297 --> 01:10:31,970
So we started to see opportunities

1453
01:10:31,970 --> 01:10:34,590
for libraries to share the
workflows of scanning things

1454
01:10:34,590 --> 01:10:37,730
that weren't already scanned,
of delivering materials

1455
01:10:37,730 --> 01:10:40,880
very quickly to a patron of
one library, if another library

1456
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,863
had a free copy of that
material using CDL.

1457
01:10:44,970 --> 01:10:48,800
And it just started to feel
like there was a very natural

1458
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:53,800
matchup between CDL as a
service that libraries provide

1459
01:10:53,870 --> 01:10:57,190
and consortial collaboration
as a vehicle for libraries

1460
01:10:57,190 --> 01:10:59,420
to do more stuff with less resources.

1461
01:10:59,420 --> 01:11:01,300
So that's the piece that's
really been exciting,

1462
01:11:01,300 --> 01:11:03,540
I think that it does feel like consortia

1463
01:11:03,540 --> 01:11:06,758
have a huge role that
they can potentially play

1464
01:11:06,758 --> 01:11:09,430
in enabling libraries to do CDL better,

1465
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:11,580
that's what we're hoping
to pursue as well.

1466
01:11:13,025 --> 01:11:15,570
- Yeah, you know I do
regular webinars talking

1467
01:11:15,570 --> 01:11:17,460
about how controlled digital lending works

1468
01:11:17,460 --> 01:11:20,086
and I always love it when a attendees say,

1469
01:11:20,086 --> 01:11:22,100
well, what about resource sharing?

1470
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:23,730
Or what about interlibrary loan?

1471
01:11:23,730 --> 01:11:25,660
It's that point where
it's like the light bulb

1472
01:11:25,660 --> 01:11:28,080
has gone off and you figured out you know,

1473
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,040
how to integrate control digital lending

1474
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,910
into workflows and where it
really kind of makes sense

1475
01:11:32,910 --> 01:11:36,520
and it's that at that
sort of at scale approach.

1476
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:37,353
- Absolutely.

1477
01:11:37,353 --> 01:11:40,050
One of the things that
ReShare enables us to do

1478
01:11:40,050 --> 01:11:42,720
as a community is that we
can actually sit at the table

1479
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:46,380
with some of the very
large semi monopoly vendors

1480
01:11:46,380 --> 01:11:48,920
that are developing a
lot of library technology

1481
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:50,770
and try to push them and notch.

1482
01:11:50,770 --> 01:11:53,410
So Project ReShare participates in some

1483
01:11:53,410 --> 01:11:56,210
of the standards community
around resource sharing,

1484
01:11:56,210 --> 01:11:59,880
there's a community around
ISO and ISO that maintains

1485
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:01,790
the protocols that expresses,

1486
01:12:01,790 --> 01:12:04,010
how the interlibrary lending happens.

1487
01:12:04,010 --> 01:12:06,840
And we've been very deliberate in pushing

1488
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,960
to have digital lending
pushed into the work stream

1489
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:11,123
for those protocols,

1490
01:12:12,646 --> 01:12:15,070
we've been successful in adding
data fields to the language

1491
01:12:15,070 --> 01:12:18,190
that takes computers or computer language

1492
01:12:18,190 --> 01:12:21,453
to extend that to incorporate
digital lending as well.

1493
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,150
So that's been really great to see.

1494
01:12:25,070 --> 01:12:29,410
- Now, Jill and Sebastian and Tom you all

1495
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:32,400
at different times talked
about Project ReShare

1496
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:36,640
and about CDLI and so I wonder
maybe Tom or one of you,

1497
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,330
can you help us understand
what's the difference

1498
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:41,190
between Project ReShare
and the CDLI group?

1499
01:12:41,190 --> 01:12:43,593
And what CDLI are doing?

1500
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:45,790
- Yeah.

1501
01:12:45,790 --> 01:12:48,970
And actually Stanford is
not a member of ReShare,

1502
01:12:48,970 --> 01:12:51,280
which is maybe why CDLI exists,

1503
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:55,400
because we were working
early on, you know in April,

1504
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:56,800
we started looking seriously at

1505
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,020
what controlled digital
lending would look like.

1506
01:12:59,020 --> 01:13:01,660
And then with conversations
with Jill and Sebastian

1507
01:13:01,660 --> 01:13:05,430
and colleagues at Duke, we
realized we were really trying

1508
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:10,430
to walk the same path and rather
than have each institution

1509
01:13:11,270 --> 01:13:14,060
or each collaboration figure
this out on their own,

1510
01:13:14,060 --> 01:13:15,880
as the Internet Archive did, you know

1511
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:17,730
over the last nine or 10 years.

1512
01:13:17,730 --> 01:13:19,140
We really benefit collectively

1513
01:13:19,140 --> 01:13:20,890
by having a community of practice

1514
01:13:20,890 --> 01:13:24,605
and so that's controlled
digital lending implementers

1515
01:13:24,605 --> 01:13:26,530
is meant to be exactly that.

1516
01:13:26,530 --> 01:13:28,890
So our tagline, which perhaps Brewster

1517
01:13:28,890 --> 01:13:31,900
will like is making CDL boring.

1518
01:13:31,900 --> 01:13:33,740
So when we can get over the hump

1519
01:13:33,740 --> 01:13:35,550
of kind of the thrill and the sensation,

1520
01:13:35,550 --> 01:13:37,620
or if you're not really
sure you can talk about it,

1521
01:13:37,620 --> 01:13:39,730
or what does it actually mean,

1522
01:13:39,730 --> 01:13:41,280
if it just becomes a routine tool

1523
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,590
and everyone's toolbox,
that'll be really exciting

1524
01:13:43,590 --> 01:13:45,780
and I think we'll have succeeded it.

1525
01:13:45,780 --> 01:13:50,630
There is a, which I'll put into the chat,

1526
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:54,763
there is a very simple
bare bones Google site,

1527
01:13:55,820 --> 01:13:58,220
which actually Jill pulled together

1528
01:13:58,220 --> 01:14:01,650
based on a couple of Google
docs that we pulled together.

1529
01:14:01,650 --> 01:14:04,577
There's an email list and
the idea is that people join,

1530
01:14:04,577 --> 01:14:06,500
share their experiences,
share their needs,

1531
01:14:06,500 --> 01:14:08,100
share their questions.

1532
01:14:08,100 --> 01:14:12,000
We've had one orchestrated
forum so far where we had

1533
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,970
about 150 people show up
in some lightening talks.

1534
01:14:14,970 --> 01:14:17,700
And we expect that this
is just going to continue

1535
01:14:17,700 --> 01:14:19,600
you know the answer is
in the room and the room

1536
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:22,310
is all of us were interested
in control digital lending.

1537
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:24,040
So if anyone is interested in joining,

1538
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,450
I'll put out a call and
Sebastian or Jill may wanna,

1539
01:14:27,450 --> 01:14:30,488
color in or amplify it, but please join.

1540
01:14:30,488 --> 01:14:33,453
And we can continue the
work there collectively.

1541
01:14:34,290 --> 01:14:35,960
Chris was one of the featured speakers

1542
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,610
in our first webinars, for example.

1543
01:14:38,610 --> 01:14:39,650
- Yes.

1544
01:14:39,650 --> 01:14:41,240
Thank you for that invitation actually

1545
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:45,420
and on the point of joining Jill I wonder,

1546
01:14:45,420 --> 01:14:48,100
is this may be a good time
to make the announcement.

1547
01:14:48,100 --> 01:14:49,363
Would you like to do it?

1548
01:14:50,290 --> 01:14:51,123
- Sure.

1549
01:14:51,123 --> 01:14:53,950
So we're really delighted and thrilled

1550
01:14:53,950 --> 01:14:55,620
to have the Internet Archive actually

1551
01:14:55,620 --> 01:14:59,320
just joining Project ReShare
as one of our founding members,

1552
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:03,700
we do have an open call for
membership in the project,

1553
01:15:03,700 --> 01:15:07,857
and we were just really excited
to see Internet Archive's

1554
01:15:07,857 --> 01:15:11,270
application, we think they
have a lot of expertise

1555
01:15:11,270 --> 01:15:14,077
and experience that will really benefit

1556
01:15:14,077 --> 01:15:18,540
our project down the road and
anybody who joins as a member

1557
01:15:18,540 --> 01:15:22,360
of Project ReShare has an
opportunity to, you know,

1558
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:24,540
influence the future
directions of the project,

1559
01:15:24,540 --> 01:15:28,270
to help us shape the way
that we approach the problems

1560
01:15:28,270 --> 01:15:30,541
that we're trying to solve as a community,

1561
01:15:30,541 --> 01:15:35,050
and Internet Archive and
Chris and Brewster expressed

1562
01:15:35,050 --> 01:15:37,460
their enthusiasm for the
vision that Project ReShare

1563
01:15:37,460 --> 01:15:41,211
was putting forward, as a
community owned resource sharing

1564
01:15:41,211 --> 01:15:44,710
suite of tools, so we're
thrilled to have Internet Archive

1565
01:15:44,710 --> 01:15:46,870
joining us and this is
the first announcement

1566
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:49,700
of that here today, so thank you so much

1567
01:15:49,700 --> 01:15:53,680
for your membership in
ReShare, we're excited.

1568
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:56,800
- Yeah we're excited too, and
thanks for the announcement,

1569
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:58,940
and thanks for having us, you know,

1570
01:15:58,940 --> 01:16:01,480
thanks for entertaining our application

1571
01:16:01,480 --> 01:16:04,470
and the conversation that
came from that, you know,

1572
01:16:04,470 --> 01:16:07,773
we're excited to be part of
this community of practice,

1573
01:16:09,910 --> 01:16:12,640
again the topic of resource
sharing comes up almost

1574
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,400
every single time I talk about
controlled digital lending,

1575
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:18,070
so there was this natural
connection and for us,

1576
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:21,440
it's great to you know
have a seat at the table

1577
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:24,650
and be among these libraries
that are building that next

1578
01:16:24,650 --> 01:16:28,220
generation of innovation
tools around resource sharing,

1579
01:16:28,220 --> 01:16:31,180
so it's just really exciting
and it was a natural fit

1580
01:16:31,180 --> 01:16:34,025
for us and really, really
happy that the conversation

1581
01:16:34,025 --> 01:16:38,840
was positive all around so
again, thanks for letting us in

1582
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,800
and we're excited about the work ahead.

1583
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:46,800
I'd like to go to Lisa
now and talk a little bit

1584
01:16:48,010 --> 01:16:51,610
about a different project
in this broader community

1585
01:16:51,610 --> 01:16:53,100
of practice that's building around

1586
01:16:53,100 --> 01:16:55,728
controlled digital lending
and Lisa this is the project

1587
01:16:55,728 --> 01:16:58,600
that you've been working on
the Universal School Library,

1588
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,910
I wonder if you could you
know tell us about that?

1589
01:17:00,910 --> 01:17:03,050
- Yeah, absolutely and
it sounds like we need

1590
01:17:03,050 --> 01:17:06,393
to look more into Project
ReShare as well, you know,

1591
01:17:06,393 --> 01:17:08,640
I wanna make the pitch not to leave

1592
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:11,160
out school libraries in the mix.

1593
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:12,460
You know, school libraries often

1594
01:17:12,460 --> 01:17:15,610
have outdated information systems,

1595
01:17:15,610 --> 01:17:18,480
there aren't necessarily
central even district

1596
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:22,740
nevermind state coordination
of sharing and resharing.

1597
01:17:22,740 --> 01:17:25,580
We talked to some folks
who don't even know that,

1598
01:17:25,580 --> 01:17:27,870
you know maybe their
school has access to things

1599
01:17:27,870 --> 01:17:29,660
that the district or state has purchased

1600
01:17:29,660 --> 01:17:32,240
so there's a real need for cohesion

1601
01:17:33,260 --> 01:17:35,620
around that kind of
sharing which is really

1602
01:17:35,620 --> 01:17:38,903
the premise of the
Universal School Library,

1603
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:43,010
you know, the real basis is that reading

1604
01:17:43,010 --> 01:17:45,540
is fundamental to learning
so now we're really talking

1605
01:17:45,540 --> 01:17:48,440
about schools here in the K-12 environment

1606
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:52,260
and students if they don't
have access to school libraries

1607
01:17:52,260 --> 01:17:55,200
has been some really
important studies that show

1608
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,750
that they lose the opportunity
to develop inquiry skills,

1609
01:17:58,750 --> 01:18:01,250
media, and digital
skills, literacy skills,

1610
01:18:01,250 --> 01:18:04,060
all these things that are
so critically important.

1611
01:18:04,060 --> 01:18:05,320
They're less likely to read,

1612
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:07,730
they're less likely to be well informed.

1613
01:18:07,730 --> 01:18:11,380
So, you know this is really
driving the passion behind

1614
01:18:11,380 --> 01:18:14,250
this idea to build a
Universal School Library

1615
01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:16,073
and it is in process,

1616
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,660
I think there's close
to 5,000 books today,

1617
01:18:20,660 --> 01:18:25,130
the goal is to have 15,000
high quality accessible titles

1618
01:18:25,130 --> 01:18:27,810
starting with middle and high school.

1619
01:18:27,810 --> 01:18:31,183
And we are working with a
group of diverse librarians

1620
01:18:31,183 --> 01:18:35,630
across the country, it includes
urban and rural districts

1621
01:18:35,630 --> 01:18:40,630
in areas and here reading
them as good librarians do,

1622
01:18:41,890 --> 01:18:46,240
around areas that are very
specific to education in schools.

1623
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:49,350
If they're not necessarily the
same kind of categorization

1624
01:18:49,350 --> 01:18:52,410
that would happen in a
public library for example,

1625
01:18:52,410 --> 01:18:57,180
which is why we need a
sort of an intermediary

1626
01:18:57,180 --> 01:19:00,900
or sort of a translator
between what school libraries

1627
01:19:00,900 --> 01:19:03,470
really need for the teaching
and learning component

1628
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:06,770
versus what public libraries
already have and offer.

1629
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:10,060
So for example, the three
kind of pillars around

1630
01:19:10,060 --> 01:19:14,010
Universal School Library are
academic literacy, right?

1631
01:19:14,010 --> 01:19:15,650
That's kind of a mainstay,

1632
01:19:15,650 --> 01:19:18,700
but then also the cultural
literacy and humanities

1633
01:19:18,700 --> 01:19:23,570
is the second area and then
career in vocational literacy.

1634
01:19:23,570 --> 01:19:27,630
And it's gonna be across
grade areas, and the curation

1635
01:19:27,630 --> 01:19:30,960
of protests should also say,
is really addressing issues

1636
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,998
around diversity, equity and inclusion.

1637
01:19:33,998 --> 01:19:36,850
Questions like, you know
can you search to see

1638
01:19:36,850 --> 01:19:39,210
if the book is authored
by persons of color?

1639
01:19:39,210 --> 01:19:41,940
Are there main characters in
the book who are of color?

1640
01:19:41,940 --> 01:19:44,657
Like how do we ensure that students

1641
01:19:44,657 --> 01:19:48,040
who have not traditionally
been represented

1642
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:49,720
in the kinds of things that they read

1643
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,340
and are available to
them are in fact there.

1644
01:19:53,340 --> 01:19:55,940
So the original pilot of USL

1645
01:19:55,940 --> 01:19:59,417
and it's really a growing
collection, as I said.

1646
01:19:59,417 --> 01:20:02,510
We started by cross-referencing,

1647
01:20:02,510 --> 01:20:06,470
five different public school
libraries with their books

1648
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:08,910
and also recommended book lists,

1649
01:20:08,910 --> 01:20:11,460
the Cooperative Children's Book Center,

1650
01:20:11,460 --> 01:20:13,944
the Young Adult Library
Services Association,

1651
01:20:13,944 --> 01:20:16,240
places like that.

1652
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:18,370
But what I think is
really key and exciting

1653
01:20:18,370 --> 01:20:19,723
about the conversation
that's happening right now

1654
01:20:19,723 --> 01:20:24,723
in this panel, is that as we
actually start to pilot it,

1655
01:20:24,839 --> 01:20:27,466
and we're gonna pilot it with districts

1656
01:20:27,466 --> 01:20:30,230
across three different States,

1657
01:20:30,230 --> 01:20:33,260
we need to create these
statewide consortia,

1658
01:20:33,260 --> 01:20:36,070
we need to be able to make
sure that we've connected

1659
01:20:36,070 --> 01:20:39,460
in these areas, the school
library, to the public libraries,

1660
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:42,500
and even to the state
colleges and universities,

1661
01:20:42,500 --> 01:20:44,030
because when you think about it especially

1662
01:20:44,030 --> 01:20:47,620
for all of our public
education institutions,

1663
01:20:47,620 --> 01:20:50,520
that money is typically
provided by the State,

1664
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,363
by tax dollars, you know, by
the taxpayers of that State.

1665
01:20:57,503 --> 01:21:00,230
And again, listening to the
Project ReShare conversation,

1666
01:21:00,230 --> 01:21:03,530
very similarly, how do
we connect these in a way

1667
01:21:03,530 --> 01:21:07,420
that we are in fact using the
best of the public resources,

1668
01:21:07,420 --> 01:21:09,790
the public commons around, you know,

1669
01:21:09,790 --> 01:21:11,660
dollars that have already been spent.

1670
01:21:11,660 --> 01:21:15,100
Again, I think with school libraries,

1671
01:21:15,100 --> 01:21:17,470
we have an additional
impediment that maybe places

1672
01:21:17,470 --> 01:21:19,080
like Stanford don't have,

1673
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:22,720
which is that we have a lot
of antiquated library systems,

1674
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,060
there's a lot of libraries
who want school libraries

1675
01:21:25,060 --> 01:21:28,440
that wanna participate, that
don't even have any sort

1676
01:21:28,440 --> 01:21:32,032
of IT infrastructure
support, or admin support

1677
01:21:32,032 --> 01:21:34,040
to even engage in this.

1678
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,576
So that's not a deterrent,
it's just the reality,

1679
01:21:37,576 --> 01:21:40,213
and how we really move forward to that,

1680
01:21:40,213 --> 01:21:42,373
is sort of the next opportunity.

1681
01:21:44,090 --> 01:21:47,450
- Yeah, I was struck knowing what I know

1682
01:21:47,450 --> 01:21:49,670
about the Universal School Library,

1683
01:21:49,670 --> 01:21:51,560
when Jill and Sebastian
and Tom were talking

1684
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:52,690
about Project ReShare,

1685
01:21:52,690 --> 01:21:55,172
I was thinking there's some parallels

1686
01:21:55,172 --> 01:21:59,040
to the Universal School Library,
certainly in terms of that,

1687
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:00,550
like let's bring people together,

1688
01:22:00,550 --> 01:22:04,940
let's solve some of these
challenges you know at scale,

1689
01:22:04,940 --> 01:22:08,160
or find community solutions
rather than going it alone.

1690
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:11,883
That certainly is the thing
that will scale for all of us.

1691
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,340
Looking at the time I'd like
to maybe start moving now into

1692
01:22:16,340 --> 01:22:19,133
just a more open conversation,
we have some questions here,

1693
01:22:19,133 --> 01:22:22,110
there've also been some
questions submitted

1694
01:22:22,110 --> 01:22:24,420
throughout the session.

1695
01:22:24,420 --> 01:22:27,470
So let's just keep going
for, you know another

1696
01:22:27,470 --> 01:22:30,320
15, 20 minutes or so with the discussion.

1697
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:32,653
And I'd like to turn to Tucker,

1698
01:22:34,027 --> 01:22:36,840
let's talk about moving past go,

1699
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:41,840
like how do libraries make it happen?

1700
01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:46,240
Like what were the conversations
that you had internally

1701
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:49,200
that got you from, hey,
I think this makes sense

1702
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:50,653
to let's do this.

1703
01:22:52,050 --> 01:22:53,380
- Sure.

1704
01:22:53,380 --> 01:22:56,320
For us with our reserves
situation, it was very important

1705
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,170
to have the support of
the library administration

1706
01:22:59,170 --> 01:23:03,210
and our legal counsel as well,

1707
01:23:03,210 --> 01:23:05,990
we didn't wanna do anything
sneaky and surprise people,

1708
01:23:05,990 --> 01:23:08,390
you now we're librarians,
that's not how we play.

1709
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:10,920
So I'm very grateful that our scholarly

1710
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:14,340
Communications Librarian Amie
Freeman spearheaded that,

1711
01:23:14,340 --> 01:23:17,230
she was very helpful in
helping people understand

1712
01:23:17,230 --> 01:23:20,310
what this was about and
why it was important.

1713
01:23:20,310 --> 01:23:22,510
Legal counsel at
universities are in the job

1714
01:23:22,510 --> 01:23:25,960
of mitigating risk not
letting you take risk,

1715
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,026
it's very rare that the
institutional interest

1716
01:23:28,026 --> 01:23:31,260
are being supported so
severely that you need

1717
01:23:31,260 --> 01:23:34,120
to consider exercising
your rights in this way.

1718
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:38,670
So I think that, you know this
is a case where your mission

1719
01:23:38,670 --> 01:23:41,350
is served by accepting a
reasonable amount of risk

1720
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:46,310
and we're able to, I wouldn't
say we got strong support,

1721
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:49,720
but we didn't get cut off either.

1722
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:52,820
So we wrote a proposal,

1723
01:23:52,820 --> 01:23:57,660
we also got a lot of help
from other people to digitize

1724
01:23:57,660 --> 01:24:00,030
the materials and get the
work done, so this is not

1725
01:24:00,030 --> 01:24:01,630
something that circulation
people we're doing,

1726
01:24:01,630 --> 01:24:04,640
our digital initiatives
group was very instrumental

1727
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,070
in helping us so a lot
of it was, you know,

1728
01:24:07,070 --> 01:24:08,710
help from colleagues as well.

1729
01:24:08,710 --> 01:24:11,593
This would not be possible
at a smaller institution,

1730
01:24:12,863 --> 01:24:13,960
the way we did it.

1731
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,763
But I think we're still
in this process too,

1732
01:24:18,264 --> 01:24:20,080
you know, the solution
that we have right now,

1733
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,350
it takes a Herculean effort
to get these materials

1734
01:24:22,350 --> 01:24:25,880
into a HathiTrust and I
would prefer to be able

1735
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:28,803
to do control digital delivery
in a way that was more,

1736
01:24:29,690 --> 01:24:32,330
you know, in control of my staff,

1737
01:24:32,330 --> 01:24:35,793
more sustainable, less effort,

1738
01:24:37,260 --> 01:24:39,870
and less risk for Hathi,

1739
01:24:39,870 --> 01:24:42,300
this is not what they signed
up for and I'm grateful

1740
01:24:42,300 --> 01:24:47,300
they're helping, so that's
sort of where we are right now.

1741
01:24:48,690 --> 01:24:52,900
- That issue of risk
permeates every conversation

1742
01:24:52,900 --> 01:24:56,010
and has come up here, you know
in the question submitted,

1743
01:24:56,010 --> 01:24:58,530
so I'm wondering maybe Tom or Jill,

1744
01:24:58,530 --> 01:25:01,970
if either one of you
could weigh in on that,

1745
01:25:01,970 --> 01:25:04,080
how you've had conversations
both internally

1746
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,550
and with also with your other libraries

1747
01:25:06,550 --> 01:25:08,273
around that issue of risk.

1748
01:25:10,890 --> 01:25:12,020
- Jill go ahead.

1749
01:25:12,020 --> 01:25:13,400
- Oh, okay.

1750
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:16,660
So yeah risk comes up here all the time.

1751
01:25:16,660 --> 01:25:20,160
And with 70 different
members in this consortium,

1752
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:23,070
there's such a wide
variety of comfort levels

1753
01:25:23,070 --> 01:25:26,100
with how we're going to approach solutions

1754
01:25:26,100 --> 01:25:28,810
in a controlled digital
lending kind of world.

1755
01:25:28,810 --> 01:25:31,260
And it's really critical
that throughout all of this,

1756
01:25:31,260 --> 01:25:35,880
the technology helps us to
really respect the rights

1757
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,510
of our publishers, we are
good partners with publishers,

1758
01:25:38,510 --> 01:25:41,650
we're constantly there trying
to buy those materials,

1759
01:25:41,650 --> 01:25:43,660
we don't wanna damage those relationships,

1760
01:25:43,660 --> 01:25:45,960
but at the same point,
we also need to be able

1761
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:50,240
to safely lend those materials
with that controlled aspect

1762
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:52,150
of controlled digital
lending in the same way

1763
01:25:52,150 --> 01:25:54,043
that we do our print materials,

1764
01:25:55,260 --> 01:25:56,700
you know through physical lending,

1765
01:25:56,700 --> 01:25:59,170
so what we're trying to accomplish,

1766
01:25:59,170 --> 01:26:02,670
I know inside of ReShare
anyway I'll just comment

1767
01:26:02,670 --> 01:26:05,610
that we really wanna build in flexibility

1768
01:26:05,610 --> 01:26:08,110
so that individual institutions can apply

1769
01:26:08,110 --> 01:26:11,660
the policies that they
have locally and make it

1770
01:26:11,660 --> 01:26:13,990
so that it's comfortable
for whatever level of risk

1771
01:26:13,990 --> 01:26:17,096
they're willing to assume
related to the offering

1772
01:26:17,096 --> 01:26:20,840
of any service, whether that's the lending

1773
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,830
of you know an article or a physical item

1774
01:26:23,830 --> 01:26:27,030
or a controlled digital
lending transaction.

1775
01:26:27,030 --> 01:26:29,360
So that's sort of what
we've been talking about,

1776
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:34,360
we're likely in the next couple
of weeks or a month or so

1777
01:26:34,550 --> 01:26:37,060
going to pull together a
controlled digital lending

1778
01:26:37,060 --> 01:26:38,990
task force inside of the consortium,

1779
01:26:38,990 --> 01:26:40,900
we've been starting to
talk about this with some

1780
01:26:40,900 --> 01:26:44,310
of our committees and the goal
there is to bring together

1781
01:26:44,310 --> 01:26:45,690
all of these different ideas

1782
01:26:45,690 --> 01:26:48,170
and to help facilitate conversations

1783
01:26:48,170 --> 01:26:51,030
and minimize duplication of effort around,

1784
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:52,620
how do you have these conversations

1785
01:26:52,620 --> 01:26:54,400
with your library administration?

1786
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:55,890
With your general counsel?

1787
01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:59,610
How do we as a consortium
support and provide documentation

1788
01:26:59,610 --> 01:27:02,040
about what this process should look like?

1789
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:04,971
You know, are there shared
policies that we as a group

1790
01:27:04,971 --> 01:27:06,410
want to agree to?

1791
01:27:06,410 --> 01:27:08,790
So those are the types of
conversations that we're starting

1792
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:11,340
to have but it's all over the map in terms

1793
01:27:11,340 --> 01:27:13,650
of where people's comfort levels lie,

1794
01:27:13,650 --> 01:27:18,460
and we just really need tools
that help us to facilitate

1795
01:27:18,460 --> 01:27:22,103
different levels of support
based on those policies.

1796
01:27:24,480 --> 01:27:26,463
- Tom, anything to add to that?

1797
01:27:28,970 --> 01:27:31,860
- Maybe the old saw that the
technology is the easy bit

1798
01:27:31,860 --> 01:27:34,410
is more true here than anywhere else,

1799
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:37,114
it's really all about your
institutional policies

1800
01:27:37,114 --> 01:27:39,646
and your workflows once
you get through there.

1801
01:27:39,646 --> 01:27:41,570
Doing things digitally is not that hard

1802
01:27:41,570 --> 01:27:43,770
we've been doing this
for, you know 20 years.

1803
01:27:43,770 --> 01:27:45,420
So a few wrinkles with controlling it

1804
01:27:45,420 --> 01:27:48,893
and what does it mean to hook
into your circuit system,

1805
01:27:52,706 --> 01:27:55,370
it's just baby steps at
Stanford, at this point,

1806
01:27:55,370 --> 01:27:57,920
everything that will go into
controlled digital lending

1807
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,080
is being individually reviewed,
I think in most cases by two

1808
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:04,230
or three people and we have
a lot of people boning up

1809
01:28:04,230 --> 01:28:08,140
on copyright, and a lot
of people boning up on how

1810
01:28:08,140 --> 01:28:10,580
to do efficient searches
of the marketplace

1811
01:28:10,580 --> 01:28:11,510
to see what's out there.

1812
01:28:11,510 --> 01:28:14,920
But I mean, we have one of the PhD books,

1813
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:18,095
or one of the PhD candidates
wanted a book on ethnography

1814
01:28:18,095 --> 01:28:20,589
from 1954 in the Yucatan.

1815
01:28:20,589 --> 01:28:23,830
So it has been out of print since 1954.

1816
01:28:23,830 --> 01:28:27,250
So one of the things that
we did realize I will say,

1817
01:28:27,250 --> 01:28:30,380
as we were looking through this
is, that we'd been maybe too

1818
01:28:30,380 --> 01:28:33,490
conservative about copyright in general.

1819
01:28:33,490 --> 01:28:36,350
So section 107 is about fair use,

1820
01:28:36,350 --> 01:28:41,130
which is you know, the predominant
at rationale behind CDL,

1821
01:28:41,130 --> 01:28:43,370
but section 108 has a lot of carve-outs

1822
01:28:43,370 --> 01:28:45,970
for libraries and archives to support.

1823
01:28:45,970 --> 01:28:48,660
And as I was reading
through it and I said,

1824
01:28:48,660 --> 01:28:50,210
why are we not making better use

1825
01:28:50,210 --> 01:28:52,010
of this to serve our patrons?

1826
01:28:52,010 --> 01:28:55,610
And so I think we're looking
much more aggressively

1827
01:28:55,610 --> 01:28:57,210
at digitization across a broad front,

1828
01:28:57,210 --> 01:28:58,823
not just CDL, moving forward.

1829
01:29:00,410 --> 01:29:04,100
- Keeping on that theme of risk,

1830
01:29:04,100 --> 01:29:06,820
this has also come up in
a number of conversations

1831
01:29:06,820 --> 01:29:10,960
and I'm curious, maybe Sebastian or Tom,

1832
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:15,183
how are libraries speaking
up about their participation,

1833
01:29:15,183 --> 01:29:16,330
in controlled digital lending?

1834
01:29:16,330 --> 01:29:19,633
Or are they somewhat afraid of doing so?

1835
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,690
- Tom, no doubt can
answer it more clearly,

1836
01:29:25,690 --> 01:29:27,960
but I would just say,
it's been an observation

1837
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,050
as we've gotten into
these conversations over

1838
01:29:30,050 --> 01:29:33,980
the past several months that
yes there's a lot of concern

1839
01:29:33,980 --> 01:29:37,010
about speaking in public and
there is a lot of concern

1840
01:29:37,010 --> 01:29:38,927
even internally and
most the people we work

1841
01:29:38,927 --> 01:29:42,700
with about the talk, the
conversation they're gonna need

1842
01:29:42,700 --> 01:29:44,930
to sit down and have
with the general counsel

1843
01:29:44,930 --> 01:29:47,060
and how you best present the case.

1844
01:29:47,060 --> 01:29:49,960
And here again, I think this is a big part

1845
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:54,170
of the value of the CDL
implement those groups

1846
01:29:54,170 --> 01:29:58,110
is to try establish
that kind of commonality

1847
01:29:58,110 --> 01:30:00,010
of understanding the shared modeling,

1848
01:30:00,010 --> 01:30:03,290
because all things being equal,
it's a lot easier to bring

1849
01:30:03,290 --> 01:30:06,248
a concept to general counsel
if it's well understood

1850
01:30:06,248 --> 01:30:08,980
and boring, as Tom says
then if it's something

1851
01:30:08,980 --> 01:30:10,640
that everybody's making up on their own,

1852
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,570
figuring out and technology
is just winging it.

1853
01:30:13,570 --> 01:30:17,030
The trick is to make
this an everyday thing

1854
01:30:17,030 --> 01:30:19,550
and a well understood
thing and bridging the gap

1855
01:30:19,550 --> 01:30:22,810
from my perspective
between the white paper

1856
01:30:22,810 --> 01:30:25,360
and what it actually looks
like within a library,

1857
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:27,050
what the controls and mechanisms are,

1858
01:30:27,050 --> 01:30:28,300
you have for managing it,

1859
01:30:30,780 --> 01:30:32,660
how you can share resources
with other libraries

1860
01:30:32,660 --> 01:30:36,970
while still protecting
the needs of your faculty

1861
01:30:36,970 --> 01:30:39,750
and your students and
how you can manage risk,

1862
01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:43,620
and the parameters that you
wanna be able to set to control

1863
01:30:43,620 --> 01:30:46,190
which part of your collections
you make available for CDL

1864
01:30:46,190 --> 01:30:48,748
at any given time which
might change, right?

1865
01:30:48,748 --> 01:30:52,270
The thing we learned with
COVID is that your situation

1866
01:30:52,270 --> 01:30:54,623
can change within the
semester, month to month.

1867
01:30:55,660 --> 01:30:57,220
You might have to shut down,

1868
01:30:57,220 --> 01:30:58,500
certain parts of your collection,

1869
01:30:58,500 --> 01:31:01,503
open up other parts and do
that in a very dynamic way.

1870
01:31:04,350 --> 01:31:05,183
- Yeah.

1871
01:31:09,140 --> 01:31:11,420
Tucker I think you have something

1872
01:31:11,420 --> 01:31:13,503
to talk about in terms of risk.

1873
01:31:14,935 --> 01:31:15,940
- As a librarian,

1874
01:31:15,940 --> 01:31:18,766
not a lawyer who often helps
other librarians understand

1875
01:31:18,766 --> 01:31:21,332
what our rights are under
copyright, I think it's important

1876
01:31:21,332 --> 01:31:23,810
for the librarians out there
to realize there's lots

1877
01:31:23,810 --> 01:31:25,830
of opportunities for education.

1878
01:31:25,830 --> 01:31:29,300
And that a lot of times when
people talk about risks,

1879
01:31:29,300 --> 01:31:32,070
they talk about like some
sort of scary monster

1880
01:31:32,070 --> 01:31:33,660
and they don't really understand

1881
01:31:33,660 --> 01:31:37,870
what risks they are assuming,
so you need to not assume

1882
01:31:37,870 --> 01:31:40,700
that you're going to have
your first born child taken

1883
01:31:40,700 --> 01:31:42,320
out into the field and shot.

1884
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:45,060
You need to understand what
risk you're undertaking

1885
01:31:45,060 --> 01:31:47,010
in copyright law, you know,

1886
01:31:47,010 --> 01:31:49,590
we are the people who came
up with music cataloging,

1887
01:31:49,590 --> 01:31:50,963
copyright laws, not that hard.

1888
01:31:50,963 --> 01:31:53,150
We just need to get the work done,

1889
01:31:53,150 --> 01:31:55,310
you know circulation library,
and just go get the work done.

1890
01:31:55,310 --> 01:31:58,130
So lots of opportunities for libraries

1891
01:31:58,130 --> 01:31:59,630
to learn more about copyright.

1892
01:32:01,150 --> 01:32:05,700
- Actually Tucker on
that issue of copyright,

1893
01:32:05,700 --> 01:32:10,700
you gave an interesting
vignette from your library

1894
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:14,390
experience about your copier, last week

1895
01:32:14,390 --> 01:32:18,700
are you at liberty to talk
about your copier issue?

1896
01:32:18,700 --> 01:32:20,600
- I don't know who's going to stop me.

1897
01:32:22,340 --> 01:32:25,210
Yeah, last week we were
working on scanning

1898
01:32:25,210 --> 01:32:28,230
the covers of our books to send
to our cataloging department

1899
01:32:28,230 --> 01:32:30,310
so that they could catalog books without

1900
01:32:30,310 --> 01:32:32,990
having to physically exchange
books during a pandemic,

1901
01:32:32,990 --> 01:32:35,240
which is a very reasonable fair use.

1902
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:40,110
And, books from Macmillan were
not scanning on our copier

1903
01:32:40,110 --> 01:32:43,083
because they were covered by copyright.

1904
01:32:44,690 --> 01:32:46,978
I had thoughts and feelings about this,

1905
01:32:46,978 --> 01:32:51,690
so they were not positive,
but yeah it concerns me

1906
01:32:51,690 --> 01:32:53,650
that we are paying for use of a copier

1907
01:32:53,650 --> 01:32:55,430
and that there are
controls being put on it,

1908
01:32:55,430 --> 01:32:57,440
I don't know what kind
of contract we signed,

1909
01:32:57,440 --> 01:33:00,160
you know, I'm part of a giant
organization that does a lot

1910
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,160
of wonderful, wonderful
work and I'm sure the people

1911
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,610
who are doing this work
don't understand all

1912
01:33:05,610 --> 01:33:07,380
the implications of what we're doing,

1913
01:33:07,380 --> 01:33:10,350
you know, do the
publishers pay the copiers

1914
01:33:10,350 --> 01:33:11,330
to put that software on?

1915
01:33:11,330 --> 01:33:13,660
If so why should I have to
pay them again for that?

1916
01:33:13,660 --> 01:33:16,500
There's just a whole lot
of questions that I don't

1917
01:33:16,500 --> 01:33:18,310
have answers to yet
because I've been very busy

1918
01:33:18,310 --> 01:33:20,010
helping students wear their masks.

1919
01:33:20,958 --> 01:33:21,791
- Yeah.

1920
01:33:21,791 --> 01:33:25,833
Thank you for doing that and
just that story is interesting.

1921
01:33:27,490 --> 01:33:30,460
I guess maybe we can
just leave it at that.

1922
01:33:30,460 --> 01:33:31,970
We've had a couple of
questions that have come

1923
01:33:31,970 --> 01:33:36,860
in from the Q and A that
I'd like to bring up here,

1924
01:33:36,860 --> 01:33:40,010
one of those was answered in writing,

1925
01:33:40,010 --> 01:33:44,280
but our Q and A actually doesn't
carry through to the video,

1926
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:47,570
so I'd like to recover this
or to cover it here live,

1927
01:33:47,570 --> 01:33:50,627
and it's a question from
Todd Carpenter and Todd asks,

1928
01:33:50,627 --> 01:33:53,920
"I'm wondering what technologies
or standards are necessary

1929
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,580
to support the infrastructure,
to support CDL,

1930
01:33:56,580 --> 01:33:59,020
are there things that extend
beyond existing resource

1931
01:33:59,020 --> 01:34:02,150
sharing standards, that
might be necessary or useful

1932
01:34:02,150 --> 01:34:04,560
and coming from a standards
based organization?"

1933
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:06,500
I think that's a great question to ask

1934
01:34:06,500 --> 01:34:08,660
and thanks for doing so Todd.

1935
01:34:08,660 --> 01:34:11,830
Tom, or Sebastian or
anyone else do you wanna

1936
01:34:11,830 --> 01:34:12,813
throw in there?

1937
01:34:14,330 --> 01:34:16,050
- I can take it, first shots.

1938
01:34:16,050 --> 01:34:21,050
I think the initial step we
took was simply to look at some

1939
01:34:21,250 --> 01:34:24,060
of the standards that are
currently used to express

1940
01:34:24,060 --> 01:34:27,550
a request and the delivery of
physical materials and look at

1941
01:34:27,550 --> 01:34:31,620
what it would take to extend
that to model a digital lens.

1942
01:34:31,620 --> 01:34:33,460
And I think the first
step has been taking them

1943
01:34:33,460 --> 01:34:35,320
in that direction, but
there's no doubt still

1944
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:36,823
kind of work to be done.

1945
01:34:37,750 --> 01:34:40,230
But I think it is really
interesting to ask the question

1946
01:34:40,230 --> 01:34:42,480
that Todd does, like what
are some other things

1947
01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:46,280
that could be done at a standards
level to facilitate this?

1948
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:49,250
Should we look at the way that we describe

1949
01:34:49,250 --> 01:34:53,220
the services made available
by library service directories

1950
01:34:53,220 --> 01:34:56,190
to incorporate digital lens
as part of the services

1951
01:34:56,190 --> 01:34:57,960
that the library can offer?

1952
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:01,670
Most importantly though, I
think Todd's point is important

1953
01:35:01,670 --> 01:35:06,420
because, standards are the best
way or one of the best ways

1954
01:35:06,420 --> 01:35:09,730
that we have to avoid
this becoming the property

1955
01:35:09,730 --> 01:35:11,760
of a single large mental.

1956
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,110
The library technology
marketplace has increasingly

1957
01:35:14,110 --> 01:35:16,551
become dominated by a very small number

1958
01:35:16,551 --> 01:35:18,820
of technology companies.

1959
01:35:18,820 --> 01:35:22,440
And most of them at this
point are closely tied

1960
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:25,540
to some of the companies that
sell contents to libraries,

1961
01:35:25,540 --> 01:35:27,570
that creates I think a very real danger

1962
01:35:27,570 --> 01:35:32,570
that those companies end up
defining that boring normality

1963
01:35:33,150 --> 01:35:35,360
that Tom was talking about that ultimately

1964
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:38,070
the lead thing library technology provider

1965
01:35:38,070 --> 01:35:40,370
ends up kind of making the roadmap.

1966
01:35:40,370 --> 01:35:43,610
The standards community provides
a really strong way for all

1967
01:35:43,610 --> 01:35:45,513
of us to get around the table and say,

1968
01:35:45,513 --> 01:35:47,130
what do we need for this to do

1969
01:35:47,130 --> 01:35:49,501
to deliver the services to our patrons?

1970
01:35:49,501 --> 01:35:52,213
And I'd love to see more
conversation about it.

1971
01:35:54,860 --> 01:35:57,000
- Tom, anything to add there?

1972
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,510
- Yeah, I think this is perhaps

1973
01:35:59,510 --> 01:36:01,780
the single most important
conversation that we can

1974
01:36:01,780 --> 01:36:03,060
and should be having right now.

1975
01:36:03,060 --> 01:36:07,210
I think we want a robust ecosystem is one

1976
01:36:07,210 --> 01:36:09,340
that has lots of copies
and lots of approaches

1977
01:36:09,340 --> 01:36:12,390
and lots of players, that we
certainly don't want lock up

1978
01:36:12,390 --> 01:36:14,110
and we should be comparing notes

1979
01:36:14,110 --> 01:36:16,500
and devising interoperability
from the get go,

1980
01:36:16,500 --> 01:36:18,590
not backing into it later on.

1981
01:36:18,590 --> 01:36:21,307
So this really, I think is
a very important priority

1982
01:36:21,307 --> 01:36:23,810
for anyone involved in this
space and it would be great

1983
01:36:23,810 --> 01:36:27,853
to see NAISO or others join in the forums.

1984
01:36:29,090 --> 01:36:31,270
- Build smart from the start was the way

1985
01:36:31,270 --> 01:36:34,410
that I heard someone describe
it and I think that's a great

1986
01:36:34,410 --> 01:36:37,860
way especially as we're
building these new systems.

1987
01:36:37,860 --> 01:36:42,050
So something that I wanna
make sure that we're clear on,

1988
01:36:42,050 --> 01:36:44,367
is that, you know the
control digital lending

1989
01:36:44,367 --> 01:36:48,620
and the work that libraries
do supports that ecosystem

1990
01:36:48,620 --> 01:36:51,810
that exists with creators
and publishers and libraries,

1991
01:36:51,810 --> 01:36:56,810
that triangle of the information
creation and management

1992
01:36:56,850 --> 01:36:59,100
that has existed for a very long period

1993
01:36:59,100 --> 01:37:00,780
of time for centuries.

1994
01:37:00,780 --> 01:37:05,780
And I'm curious if anyone
has thoughts on playing

1995
01:37:06,410 --> 01:37:08,360
as part of that ecosystem, you know,

1996
01:37:08,360 --> 01:37:11,520
how can we find these win-win
solutions with the publishers

1997
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,743
and with creators and
with among libraries,

1998
01:37:15,551 --> 01:37:17,800
so that everyone can understand that CDL

1999
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:19,930
is a system that helps and doesn't hurt

2000
01:37:19,930 --> 01:37:22,263
any thoughts on that particular point?

2001
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:27,263
It's a big topic and a big challenge.

2002
01:37:33,390 --> 01:37:35,465
- I'll take a stab at
that, if that's okay.

2003
01:37:35,465 --> 01:37:36,520
- Okay thanks.

2004
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:38,460
- I think there are lots of opportunities.

2005
01:37:38,460 --> 01:37:40,430
The control digital
lending white paper talks

2006
01:37:40,430 --> 01:37:42,950
about the 20th century problem
where there's so many books

2007
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:45,190
that are no longer economically viable,

2008
01:37:45,190 --> 01:37:47,380
that we don't have electronic access to,

2009
01:37:47,380 --> 01:37:49,230
which means the work
of many of my faculty,

2010
01:37:49,230 --> 01:37:52,623
which should matter is not
accessible to people digitally.

2011
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:57,250
I think another opportunity
we have is that not every book

2012
01:37:57,250 --> 01:38:01,620
is born with a financial
incentive for publishers

2013
01:38:01,620 --> 01:38:04,800
to take it on and try
to distribute it widely.

2014
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:07,550
And I think libraries have a
real opportunity to step up

2015
01:38:07,550 --> 01:38:08,880
and promote local collections

2016
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,640
or works from underrepresented groups,

2017
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:14,120
be able to work directly
with self published authors

2018
01:38:14,120 --> 01:38:17,660
on issues that publishers aren't
necessarily interested in,

2019
01:38:17,660 --> 01:38:20,350
because they're not lucrative
and that's reasonable,

2020
01:38:20,350 --> 01:38:21,850
that's not what they should be doing,

2021
01:38:21,850 --> 01:38:24,400
that's what libraries should
be doing and I think having

2022
01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:26,557
the ability to work directly
with an author and say,

2023
01:38:26,557 --> 01:38:29,900
"Hey, this book about
African American history

2024
01:38:29,900 --> 01:38:32,020
in Lower Richland County,
South Carolina is important."

2025
01:38:32,020 --> 01:38:34,610
And we want to make sure
that we treat it responsibly

2026
01:38:34,610 --> 01:38:36,870
and we're not taking more from
this person than we should

2027
01:38:36,870 --> 01:38:37,820
of their rights.

2028
01:38:37,820 --> 01:38:39,490
So we wanna be able to check it in and out

2029
01:38:39,490 --> 01:38:43,080
just like a library, we
just wanna be a library.

2030
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:45,750
So I think that it would
help us address equity issues

2031
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:48,450
in our collection development,
I think it would help us

2032
01:38:48,450 --> 01:38:50,853
provide access to
important scholarly works.

2033
01:38:53,790 --> 01:38:55,260
- Jill go ahead, please.

2034
01:38:55,260 --> 01:38:56,630
- Well, I love Tucker's answer,

2035
01:38:56,630 --> 01:39:00,070
but I would just add on
to that, that, you know,

2036
01:39:00,070 --> 01:39:02,590
publishers are facing a
variety of problems too.

2037
01:39:02,590 --> 01:39:06,140
I regularly speak with
university press publishers

2038
01:39:06,140 --> 01:39:09,510
and the challenges that
they face in choosing,

2039
01:39:09,510 --> 01:39:12,010
which items to publish and how to support

2040
01:39:12,010 --> 01:39:14,640
that from an academic standpoint,

2041
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,340
there are real opportunities
for us to have collaboration

2042
01:39:17,340 --> 01:39:20,950
around some of these
topics and to figure out

2043
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:23,500
where our shared problems are.

2044
01:39:23,500 --> 01:39:27,432
There's certainly an element
of looking at our data

2045
01:39:27,432 --> 01:39:29,350
and trying to determine, you know,

2046
01:39:29,350 --> 01:39:32,430
what do we need to have
that we don't have today?

2047
01:39:32,430 --> 01:39:34,840
I regularly look at our usage statistics

2048
01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:37,670
here within my consortium
to look at what's being lent

2049
01:39:37,670 --> 01:39:39,950
as a way of deciding what I should buy,

2050
01:39:39,950 --> 01:39:42,130
even if it is something that's older.

2051
01:39:42,130 --> 01:39:45,920
And I think that there are
many opportunities like that,

2052
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:48,310
to have these types of conversations

2053
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:53,310
and to build opportunities for
trust and to have just honest

2054
01:39:54,710 --> 01:39:57,210
and open conversations about
what it is that each of us

2055
01:39:57,210 --> 01:40:00,120
is trying to do, and the
rights that we have in terms

2056
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:01,780
of the approaches that we take.

2057
01:40:01,780 --> 01:40:06,780
So I guess I would just add on
to what Tucker already said,

2058
01:40:07,070 --> 01:40:09,240
to just say that I think
there are all kinds

2059
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:11,840
of opportunities for collaboration
here we often set it up

2060
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,250
as an us versus them and
that's really unfortunate,

2061
01:40:14,250 --> 01:40:16,730
I don't think that's the way that we

2062
01:40:16,730 --> 01:40:20,050
have successful programs and services,

2063
01:40:20,050 --> 01:40:21,740
I've had most success when I've been able

2064
01:40:21,740 --> 01:40:25,300
to have conversations
with publishers directly,

2065
01:40:25,300 --> 01:40:28,380
and we often find common
understanding and approaches

2066
01:40:28,380 --> 01:40:31,710
that they're willing to try,
and I think there are all kinds

2067
01:40:31,710 --> 01:40:34,110
of opportunities in this
space for that as well.

2068
01:40:35,290 --> 01:40:38,130
- Yeah, Lisa I'm curious from
an educational perspective,

2069
01:40:38,130 --> 01:40:41,420
I mean, again given that, you
know your background largely

2070
01:40:41,420 --> 01:40:46,297
is in open, right with
OER, how does open play

2071
01:40:47,726 --> 01:40:51,090
in this ecosystem and you
know what is the win-win

2072
01:40:51,090 --> 01:40:53,173
for publishers in education?

2073
01:40:57,610 --> 01:41:01,040
- So as somebody who is very much steeped

2074
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:05,430
in the open access, you know
open educational resources

2075
01:41:05,430 --> 01:41:10,430
are in some ways sort of the,
you know, on the line here,

2076
01:41:11,930 --> 01:41:15,490
they're absolutely the
best solution in terms

2077
01:41:15,490 --> 01:41:18,483
of democratizing access to education.

2078
01:41:21,220 --> 01:41:24,540
It's equally important around
the affordability issue,

2079
01:41:24,540 --> 01:41:26,980
which of course is, you know
we're talking about revenues

2080
01:41:26,980 --> 01:41:29,170
and publishers, but even more important

2081
01:41:29,170 --> 01:41:32,460
than that is the issue
around the adaptability

2082
01:41:32,460 --> 01:41:35,510
and the collaboration around content

2083
01:41:35,510 --> 01:41:37,640
and how you improve content over time

2084
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:41,410
in the continuous learning
aspects of education

2085
01:41:41,410 --> 01:41:44,840
and how that has to be embedded into sort

2086
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:48,300
of the public commons with
the idea that education

2087
01:41:48,300 --> 01:41:50,580
is a human right, for example.

2088
01:41:50,580 --> 01:41:53,563
So when you take that all
the way to the extreme,

2089
01:41:55,561 --> 01:42:00,270
you know, the idea of, you
know, the risk of publisher has,

2090
01:42:00,270 --> 01:42:02,720
obviously the risk of
publisher has is the same risk

2091
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:06,780
that newspapers have
today or others where,

2092
01:42:06,780 --> 01:42:09,930
you know in some cases the
very best content is openly

2093
01:42:09,930 --> 01:42:13,900
and freely available, openly
licensed and freely available.

2094
01:42:13,900 --> 01:42:16,430
You know, that being said,

2095
01:42:16,430 --> 01:42:19,760
there's the reality of not just, you know,

2096
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:22,770
there is a market and there are publishers

2097
01:42:22,770 --> 01:42:25,350
who are helping authors make a living

2098
01:42:25,350 --> 01:42:28,810
and not to mention books that
have already been written,

2099
01:42:28,810 --> 01:42:32,590
and I don't just mean the
ones 75 years ago, you know,

2100
01:42:32,590 --> 01:42:35,400
books that are 20, 30, 10 years old,

2101
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:38,600
and we absolutely need access to those

2102
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:40,620
and controlled digital lending

2103
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:43,620
it's just kind of the perfect solution

2104
01:42:43,620 --> 01:42:48,620
because it's a perfect blend
of open and proprietary

2105
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:52,980
in that sense because there
are in fact many educators

2106
01:42:52,980 --> 01:42:56,060
who are creating terrific content around

2107
01:42:56,060 --> 01:42:58,110
these kinds of primary source books

2108
01:42:58,110 --> 01:43:01,220
that have been bought by libraries.

2109
01:43:01,220 --> 01:43:04,970
So it's really still helping
the whole publishing ecosystem.

2110
01:43:04,970 --> 01:43:06,660
When we look at the blends
of these, and it's not

2111
01:43:06,660 --> 01:43:09,830
about being purest and saying,
if it's not openly licensed,

2112
01:43:09,830 --> 01:43:12,010
we won't use it, it's about seeing again,

2113
01:43:12,010 --> 01:43:15,370
how do we in fact, you know, achieve sort

2114
01:43:15,370 --> 01:43:17,870
of the highest goals around
teaching and learning.

2115
01:43:19,820 --> 01:43:21,510
- That's great, thank you.

2116
01:43:21,510 --> 01:43:24,370
So as we wind down here today,

2117
01:43:24,370 --> 01:43:27,560
thanks everyone for a
spirited conversation.

2118
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:30,860
What I'd like to do is offer
everyone a final moment

2119
01:43:30,860 --> 01:43:34,570
to sort of bring things
together and maybe set

2120
01:43:34,570 --> 01:43:38,610
the stage for what happens
in our library lives

2121
01:43:38,610 --> 01:43:43,113
and our work next so, Tucker
final thoughts from you.

2122
01:43:44,962 --> 01:43:47,370
- I would just like to say
how I'm encouraged I am

2123
01:43:47,370 --> 01:43:49,860
to hear all the hard work
that other people are doing

2124
01:43:49,860 --> 01:43:52,180
to try to help us get our work done.

2125
01:43:52,180 --> 01:43:55,170
And help our patrons all
of us together and it's one

2126
01:43:55,170 --> 01:43:58,680
of the great things about being
a librarian and I feel like,

2127
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:00,290
you know, just to echo what Jill said,

2128
01:44:00,290 --> 01:44:03,850
publishers are definitely
not the enemy, they add value

2129
01:44:03,850 --> 01:44:05,850
and finding a way that
we can all come together

2130
01:44:05,850 --> 01:44:07,920
on this I think as long
as we keep working out,

2131
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:08,963
it is gonna happen.

2132
01:44:10,792 --> 01:44:12,670
- How about you, Tom?

2133
01:44:12,670 --> 01:44:17,670
- I would just add two more
considerations for why CDL now.

2134
01:44:17,797 --> 01:44:20,850
And one is environmental, a
lot of our lending partners

2135
01:44:20,850 --> 01:44:25,250
are on the right side of
the country, the East Coast.

2136
01:44:25,250 --> 01:44:29,070
And it makes no sense at all
to ship a book 3,000 miles

2137
01:44:29,070 --> 01:44:30,878
in this day and age, I mean they're just,

2138
01:44:30,878 --> 01:44:32,840
such obviously better ways of doing this.

2139
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:35,530
So I really hope that
that can come together.

2140
01:44:35,530 --> 01:44:37,147
The other is special collections,

2141
01:44:37,147 --> 01:44:39,929
there is a lot of stuff
that was very small run,

2142
01:44:39,929 --> 01:44:42,570
was never meant to be widely
produced, widely distributed,

2143
01:44:42,570 --> 01:44:46,010
or only exist in local
pockets and the opportunities

2144
01:44:46,010 --> 01:44:48,370
to apply CDL to these, is just fantastic.

2145
01:44:48,370 --> 01:44:52,320
So my biggest hope for the next year,

2146
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:54,700
'cause I think we are in
a moment and it's a moment

2147
01:44:54,700 --> 01:44:56,850
that won't last forever is
that we can really bring

2148
01:44:56,850 --> 01:44:59,540
these conversations plans and
developments out into the open

2149
01:44:59,540 --> 01:45:00,790
and do it as a community.

2150
01:45:00,790 --> 01:45:03,490
Libraries are very good at
it and we should do it now.

2151
01:45:05,010 --> 01:45:06,343
- Thanks for that Tom, yeah,

2152
01:45:06,343 --> 01:45:09,110
let's have this conversation
in the light of day

2153
01:45:10,010 --> 01:45:11,950
and not in the shadows.

2154
01:45:11,950 --> 01:45:13,793
Jill, how about you final thoughts?

2155
01:45:14,930 --> 01:45:16,450
- I'll add a third consideration

2156
01:45:16,450 --> 01:45:18,520
to what Tom's first two were.

2157
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:21,740
And I think that's accessibility
of our collections,

2158
01:45:21,740 --> 01:45:25,050
we have a number of patrons
who for whatever reason,

2159
01:45:25,050 --> 01:45:28,760
can't come into the library,
even outside of COVID,

2160
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:32,420
and this is one other way of bringing

2161
01:45:32,420 --> 01:45:35,230
about equitable access to our patrons.

2162
01:45:35,230 --> 01:45:38,240
So I would encourage us to
continue having the conversation

2163
01:45:38,240 --> 01:45:40,620
in that space, Internet
Archive has done a great job

2164
01:45:40,620 --> 01:45:43,670
of making items accessible
I think this is a space

2165
01:45:43,670 --> 01:45:45,800
where we could all benefit from, you know,

2166
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:48,730
your experience and hopefully
make our collections

2167
01:45:48,730 --> 01:45:49,730
more accessible too.

2168
01:45:50,650 --> 01:45:53,080
And then lastly, I would just
say, you know, work through

2169
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:56,200
your groups of libraries
that you're collaborating

2170
01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:59,970
with as a way of reducing
duplication of effort.

2171
01:45:59,970 --> 01:46:03,920
It's really common for institutions
to try and go it alone.

2172
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:06,950
And I'm really encouraged again
by all of the collaboration

2173
01:46:06,950 --> 01:46:08,560
I'm seeing in this space, you know,

2174
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:10,160
come to the CDLI meetings,

2175
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:12,630
come to these library leader forums,

2176
01:46:12,630 --> 01:46:14,850
and just be involved and
hear what's going on,

2177
01:46:14,850 --> 01:46:17,250
I think there's a variety
of folks out there looking

2178
01:46:17,250 --> 01:46:19,113
to work together and that's exciting.

2179
01:46:20,161 --> 01:46:21,711
So work through your consortia,

2180
01:46:22,700 --> 01:46:25,070
and I know that there are many
consortia out there trying

2181
01:46:25,070 --> 01:46:27,540
to have these conversations together,

2182
01:46:27,540 --> 01:46:29,713
to reduce that duplication of effort.

2183
01:46:31,450 --> 01:46:32,283
- Thanks, Jill.

2184
01:46:32,283 --> 01:46:33,973
How about you, Lisa final thoughts?

2185
01:46:34,850 --> 01:46:35,683
- Yeah.

2186
01:46:35,683 --> 01:46:36,990
Well, I wanna echo something that Brews

2187
01:46:36,990 --> 01:46:39,150
just said at the very
beginning, he said, you know,

2188
01:46:39,150 --> 01:46:43,020
controlled analog lending
is now just lending.

2189
01:46:43,020 --> 01:46:45,640
Controlled digital lending is just lending

2190
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:48,670
the same principles have to apply

2191
01:46:48,670 --> 01:46:51,330
and what we're trying to do
here, and maybe we don't say

2192
01:46:51,330 --> 01:46:53,900
this explicitly because of the risk,

2193
01:46:53,900 --> 01:46:55,500
but we're trying to change a system

2194
01:46:55,500 --> 01:46:58,090
and we're trying to
change how a system works.

2195
01:46:58,090 --> 01:47:00,410
So we need to work across
stakeholder groups,

2196
01:47:00,410 --> 01:47:03,830
we need to involve educators
and students in this process,

2197
01:47:03,830 --> 01:47:05,610
and we need to change the policies

2198
01:47:05,610 --> 01:47:09,360
that in fact keep a very
inequitable system in place.

2199
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:14,143
So for me, it is about access
and equity really at its core.

2200
01:47:16,210 --> 01:47:18,000
- How about you, Sebastian.

2201
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:19,000
Final thoughts?

2202
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,020
- I would offer a perspective I guess,

2203
01:47:22,020 --> 01:47:24,050
everybody is being challenged right now,

2204
01:47:24,050 --> 01:47:25,740
in this conversation by this group.

2205
01:47:25,740 --> 01:47:28,320
And I know those too have
an opinion about something

2206
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:31,763
that is kind of new and
undiscovered country a little bit.

2207
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:34,810
And that's hard when you're
also trying to run a library

2208
01:47:34,810 --> 01:47:38,490
on the really difficult circumstances,

2209
01:47:38,490 --> 01:47:40,030
it's a challenge.

2210
01:47:40,030 --> 01:47:43,240
The CDL white paper really
opens up a whole new country

2211
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:47,090
in a sense a new back to
foster deliver services.

2212
01:47:47,090 --> 01:47:50,530
And those of us who are
here right now at the table,

2213
01:47:50,530 --> 01:47:54,160
participating, engaging, have
a huge opportunity to shape

2214
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:56,760
what that's gonna look like
over the next 10, 15 years,

2215
01:47:56,760 --> 01:48:00,800
so I would just encourage
people to make the efforts

2216
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:04,240
and to dive in, to read the
white paper, as Jill says,

2217
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:09,020
to engage with your
collaborators, vendors,

2218
01:48:09,020 --> 01:48:12,601
partners, conceptual partners,
and challenge each other

2219
01:48:12,601 --> 01:48:14,700
to really dig into it because I think we

2220
01:48:14,700 --> 01:48:17,840
have a huge opportunity
to shape where this goes,

2221
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:21,450
but it's not without challenges,
it does really require all

2222
01:48:21,450 --> 01:48:23,195
of us to make the effort,

2223
01:48:23,195 --> 01:48:28,195
but man, what great opportunities
to provide new value.

2224
01:48:30,540 --> 01:48:32,520
- Well, thank you all panelists

2225
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:36,470
for your participation,
your time, your thoughts

2226
01:48:36,470 --> 01:48:37,780
and sharing your experience today.

2227
01:48:37,780 --> 01:48:39,910
I know I've learned a lot and we've gotten

2228
01:48:39,910 --> 01:48:42,390
some great feedback and some good tweets,

2229
01:48:42,390 --> 01:48:44,080
so thank you again for your time.

2230
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:48,220
And I'd like to throw to
Brewster for some final thoughts

2231
01:48:48,220 --> 01:48:50,473
to tie it in a bow for us today.

2232
01:48:51,690 --> 01:48:53,510
- Thank you, Chris and thank you all.

2233
01:48:53,510 --> 01:48:54,860
We're all lovers of books here.

2234
01:48:54,860 --> 01:48:58,830
And the idea is we really
want books to continue being

2235
01:48:58,830 --> 01:49:01,460
an important part of
the knowledge ecosystem.

2236
01:49:01,460 --> 01:49:03,280
And right now in the digital world,

2237
01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:04,913
it's not happening enough.

2238
01:49:06,890 --> 01:49:09,550
It's difficult to buy ebooks.

2239
01:49:09,550 --> 01:49:13,193
In fact, often books are
not even available for sale,

2240
01:49:14,210 --> 01:49:16,550
for sale, like really for sale,

2241
01:49:16,550 --> 01:49:18,060
or they're sort of bound up in these sort

2242
01:49:18,060 --> 01:49:21,750
of strange monopoly distribution systems,

2243
01:49:21,750 --> 01:49:26,040
which really hurt preservation
and enduring access.

2244
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:29,100
We have a generation now that
are turning their screens

2245
01:49:29,100 --> 01:49:32,160
to answer questions and
we're giving them Wikipedia,

2246
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:33,600
which is awesome.

2247
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:35,280
Let's give them more than that,

2248
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:37,630
let's give them deeper things,

2249
01:49:37,630 --> 01:49:39,740
let's get them access to materials.

2250
01:49:39,740 --> 01:49:44,740
And controlled digital lending
is actually kind of lame,

2251
01:49:44,770 --> 01:49:47,800
it is kind of hard to use,

2252
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:51,100
it is not a pleasurable experience,

2253
01:49:51,100 --> 01:49:55,140
it is really far from
going and saying to my car,

2254
01:49:55,140 --> 01:49:58,213
play Buffalo Springfield.

2255
01:49:59,725 --> 01:50:03,150
Okay and it just doesn't
happen quite that way,

2256
01:50:03,150 --> 01:50:05,840
but controlled digital lending
is a step in that direction,

2257
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:07,360
we're all struggling for relevance

2258
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:09,780
and I would say to the
publishers really also

2259
01:50:09,780 --> 01:50:12,500
have to really rethink themselves as

2260
01:50:12,500 --> 01:50:14,640
to how they're going to
distribute their works

2261
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:17,410
and how libraries are
gonna distribute works

2262
01:50:17,410 --> 01:50:20,500
to be relevant to a
generation that is busy,

2263
01:50:20,500 --> 01:50:23,400
often just on a phone and the like,

2264
01:50:23,400 --> 01:50:26,850
so CDL is a step, but it's a small step.

2265
01:50:26,850 --> 01:50:30,330
Let's take this step together
and let's try to figure out

2266
01:50:30,330 --> 01:50:33,350
all in all how to build an ecosystem

2267
01:50:33,350 --> 01:50:36,740
for really high quality materials
to get out to everybody.

2268
01:50:36,740 --> 01:50:38,810
And this has been a terrific session,

2269
01:50:38,810 --> 01:50:41,053
I look forward to next Tuesday's session.

2270
01:50:42,450 --> 01:50:43,430
- Thanks, Brewster.

2271
01:50:43,430 --> 01:50:47,680
And on that, I'd like to go
back to sharing my screen,

2272
01:50:47,680 --> 01:50:51,400
I'd like to give people just
a couple of final updates,

2273
01:50:51,400 --> 01:50:53,170
to bring this session to a close.

2274
01:50:53,170 --> 01:50:55,870
So thanks again, everyone
for participating,

2275
01:50:55,870 --> 01:50:57,430
thank you audience and attendees

2276
01:50:57,430 --> 01:51:00,350
for your time and your attention.

2277
01:51:00,350 --> 01:51:02,790
We've had a great number of
people who've stayed with us

2278
01:51:02,790 --> 01:51:04,650
through to the end so thank you for that.

2279
01:51:04,650 --> 01:51:06,840
I wanna set the stage for next Tuesday,

2280
01:51:06,840 --> 01:51:09,150
so this will be our impact session,

2281
01:51:09,150 --> 01:51:10,690
we're gonna bring it all together.

2282
01:51:10,690 --> 01:51:15,690
So I mentioned earlier that Michelle Wu,

2283
01:51:15,850 --> 01:51:18,700
will receive the Internet
Archive Hero Award,

2284
01:51:18,700 --> 01:51:22,260
and she will accept the award
at that session next week,

2285
01:51:22,260 --> 01:51:25,733
and she'll also give us a little lecture,

2286
01:51:26,917 --> 01:51:30,650
about her work, which I think
is gonna be really good.

2287
01:51:30,650 --> 01:51:35,190
We also have a special
announcement in store for next week

2288
01:51:35,190 --> 01:51:38,510
and so we'll be alluding
to that a little bit more

2289
01:51:38,510 --> 01:51:42,650
as we go through the next
week, but stay tuned for that,

2290
01:51:42,650 --> 01:51:45,470
you don't wanna miss this
session next Tuesday.

2291
01:51:45,470 --> 01:51:48,420
You can still register, registrations open

2292
01:51:48,420 --> 01:51:51,590
at libraryleadersforum.org.

2293
01:51:51,590 --> 01:51:55,590
And then just a final note,
this session has been recorded

2294
01:51:55,590 --> 01:51:59,490
and we will share that recording
out probably on Thursday.

2295
01:51:59,490 --> 01:52:01,210
That's about the time that it takes

2296
01:52:01,210 --> 01:52:02,560
for us to get captions back,

2297
01:52:02,560 --> 01:52:06,210
so we'll have accessible
captions for the video,

2298
01:52:06,210 --> 01:52:10,320
we'll blog about it, we'll send
all of you who are attending

2299
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:12,370
an email with a link to the session

2300
01:52:12,370 --> 01:52:16,130
and with a blog post recap.

2301
01:52:16,130 --> 01:52:17,730
And a final note,

2302
01:52:17,730 --> 01:52:22,730
use the empowering libraries
hashtag on Twitter,

2303
01:52:24,060 --> 01:52:26,610
to keep the conversation
going from this point forward,

2304
01:52:26,610 --> 01:52:30,010
so thank you all again for your
time, your attention today.

2305
01:52:30,010 --> 01:52:33,242
And I look forward to
carrying on this conversation

2306
01:52:33,242 --> 01:52:36,300
over the next week and I
hope to see many of you

2307
01:52:36,300 --> 01:52:37,840
next week at our next session.

2308
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:38,673
Thanks again.